Our Guests Hank Kunneman, Richard Roberts

SID: I know your story, Richard, but to be raised with one of the giants of men and women of God that move in miracles, but not even raised with them, but at his side at so many of his meetings. You can see God’s hand on your life from the very beginning. But tell me what you saw with your own eyes, creative miracles of your dad.


RICHARD: Sid, the one that really stands out to me is the one that you and I have talked about before, was a little boy that was born without a hip socket. And when his mother brought him into the prayer line he was about my age. And my dad read the prayer card and said to the woman, “I am so sorry. I just don’t have faith for a creative miracle.” The woman took the microphone and said, “Brother Roberts, I don’t ask you to have any faith at all. You just pray and I’ll do the believing.” And he prayed and seemingly nothing happened. The little boy left on his crutches and the metal brace, and he went off the same way he came on. But the next night when we got to the tent they had the little boy up on the platform and he was running and jumping. He didn’t have a crutch. His shoe was not built up. There was no metal brace and he was running and jumping. And my father went over and put his hand on the place where he put it the night before where his hip was all sunken in because there was no hip socket, and in the night God had supernaturally created a hip socket. And he’s still doing that today. Someone’s left leg, which is shorter than the other is supernaturally being lengthened and you’re going to find, in fact before this program is over, someone is going to find that their leg has grown out to the exact length of their other leg.


SID: Now Richard, I’ve read a lot about your dad and the devil tried to get rid of him before he got started. He had, which was really a fatal type of disease back then, TB.




SID: And God spoke to him about his call. What did he say?


RICHARD: He said, “Son, I am going to heal you and you’re to take my healing power to your generation.” And when his older brother, my oldest uncle, and aunt, my oldest aunt, his sister, took him to a healing meeting, a man prayed a different kind of prayer. He didn’t say, “Lord, if it be your will, heal this boy of tuberculosis.” Instead, he said, “You foul tormenting sickness, I adjure you by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, come out of this boy, loose him and set him free.” Someone is liable to get healed right now as I’m praying that prayer right now because the power of God is just as strong now as it was then. As the power of God came up his feet, up his legs, into his body, suddenly he could breathe without hemorrhaging. Before, for the period of five months when he would cough he would hemorrhage and spit blood across the room, and had lost the power to walk. But suddenly, the power of God came in, he could breathe all the way in and breathe all the way out. He had been born a stutterer, could hardly say his name especially when he was under pressure. They put a microphone in his face and he talked for ten minutes before he realized he hadn’t stuttered once. That was the beginning of the healing ministry of something supernatural.


SID: You recently taught on the subject of miracles are coming towards us.




SID: Or passed us.




SID: Tell me why they go passed us. I’d rather know how to come into me, receive it.


RICHARD: Just look at the scriptures, Sid. Here you see Jesus with a great crowd and the Bible speaks of two or three that were healed. Miracles were coming toward the people or they were going passed the people, some who wanted to be in the atmosphere to receive, some who didn’t want to be in the atmosphere to receive. So miracles were constantly passing by. What we have to learn how to do is to use our faith. It’s not just his power. His power is important, certainly, but we have to use our faith. His power and our faith have to come together and it happens through a point of contact. A point of contact is something that you do and when you release your faith you get yourself into an atmosphere for healing. The woman who touched the border of his garment, the woman with the issue of blood made the border of his garment, which was more than likely a prayer shawl, which had tassels at the base, representing the Law of Moses, which was the Word of God, she made the Word of God a point of contact. She said, if I can, really what she was saying was if I can just get my hands on the Word of God I will release my faith, and as soon as she touched it her faith was released because Jesus whirled around and said, “Who has touched me?” Now she touched the tassels on his garment, but he said, “Someone has touched ME.” We can touch him by our faith. We can release our faith. Faith, when I receive this prayer in the name of Jesus, I release my faith to you and I receive a miracle. You know, when my father prophesied and put a portion of his spirit on me, I said, “Lord, I want that. I claim that in Jesus’ name. That’s mine in the name of Jesus.” And that’s what she was doing. And Jesus whirled around and said, “Someone has touched me.” She told him the truth. He said, “Woman, your faith, your believing, the fact that you have released your faith has set you free.” And often times when I pray for people they say, well I didn’t feel instantaneous healing. Well who knows? It might come by the end of this program. It might come tomorrow. It might come next week. That’s why we hold in faith and continue to release our faith, and say, I’m not coming out of this prayer of agreement until the miracle is manifested.

SID: Richard, you have people healed of stage 4 cancer. So many people, tell me a quick story of one person.


RICHARD: I just got a testimony just this morning of a woman who called for prayer. She had a fibroid tumor the size of a grapefruit. And when we prayed she said the thing just went flat. The doctor said it’s no longer there. She released her faith. I wasn’t there to lay hands on her. I didn’t have a word of knowledge for her. But when I prayed, she took hold of her faith and let it go to God, and the fibroid tumor disappeared. We just got another testimony from a woman who had been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and she’s the one you’re referring to. Just about three weeks ago, I got this testimony. She had called into our Abundant Life prayer group and we had prayed, and they had brought the prayer request to me. We prayed. She called back and said, “I went back to the doctor again. Now they cannot find a trace of cancer in my body. It is gone.” What God did, he’s still doing.


SID: Now when we come back Hank Kunneman and Richard Roberts are here to reveal how healing and the prophetic, they work together for supernatural results. Stay with us.

Our Guests Hank Kunneman, Richard Roberts

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. When you combine prophecy and healing together it’s going to cause an explosion of miracles. Are you ready? Now my first guest Hank Kunneman is really one of the most accurate prophets of this generation. His prophecies regarding 9/11, America’s promise and future, prophecies for the nations of the world and even his word from God saying, “I will make America great again.” No, that was not Donald Trump first. That was this guest right now, Hank Kunneman. Hank, you told me that you had, I don’t know if it was a dream or a vision, of you sitting at this desk and me asking you a question: “Hank, so what do you see happening this year?”


HANK: This year. I did see that question being asked of you in my dream, and the Lord spoke in the dream, and here’s what he said. He said, “Hank, that is too limited.” He said, “I want to broaden the perspective of the people that they understand it’s not just what I’m doing this year, but what I’m doing in the now.” This is important: in the now. Now the now can span through this year, it can span through next year, the coming years when God moves in the now. Here’s how you know. Jesus’ first miracle, he turned water into aged wine, the best wine to last. It was accelerated time. It was also now that he moved and presented that to the governor of the feast. And it says that this is the beginning of miracles that Jesus did. Well we know that it was the miracle in the now. It was accelerated time, but it was also the beginning of miracles, meaning that it hasn’t stopped. In fact, I hear the Spirit of God say this: “I am the God who moves in the now and now my Glory is coming upon this nation, the United States, and it’s coming upon the nations of the earth, and it’s coming fast,” says the Spirit of God. “United States, you shall be united as what bears your name. And there is a move that shall change legislatively and you will see that the finest days are soon to come upon you in the now. For this is my plan,” says the Spirit of God. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord.


SID: I tell you, I don’t know about you, but the Holy Spirit is just bubbling up within me. God let you see something that must have been wonderful. God let you see through his eyes.


HANK: Yes.


SID: Explain.


HANK: This happened to me just a few Sundays ago. I was standing on the front row of the church that I pastor in Omaha, Nebraska and I was worshiping the Lord, and all of a sudden, Sid, I felt like somebody threw a coat on me, I knew it was the Lord, like a coat. It was so heavy I could hardly stand, I could hardly walk to the platform to transition the service. All of a sudden I saw a pair of eyes. I said, “Lord, what is this?” He said, “Hank, I’m allowing you to see through my eyes for events that are coming in the now for the nations.” And it’s almost like, if you ever downloaded files on a computer, they go [whoosh] real fast. That’s how fast things were moving through the eyes of the Lord that I was looking through and being downloaded in my spirit. And I really believe that there is things that are happening by the Spirit of God that if we limit it to a time we will miss the bigger picture of what God is trying to reveal in the now. He’s up to good. “And let it be known even unto you, Sid,” said the Spirit of God says, “that I have placed you in the Middle East, but all watch what I’m about to open, not only in Europe, but I’m about to open up even in Asia an effectual door of utterance. Why? To handle this move of my Spirit and awakening that is coming to the earth and it’s coming fast.” Thank you, Lord.


SID: You know, Hank, God has given you a revelation on a subject I have never heard anyone even teach on, and that is the Bible talks about wind and the Bible talks about a north wind, a south, an east, a west. You have revelation that when you get this knowledge and pray according to biblical knowledge you get amazing results. Take one wind and give me an example.


HANK: All right. First, let me just say this. Ezekiel prophesied to the four winds externally.


SID: Yes.


HANK: We through the Holy Spirit prophesy with the four winds in our mouth. I’ll give you one example. The east wind, you can read all four winds in Job 37, the east wind is a wind of judgment against the enemy. It’s a wind of breakthrough. It’s also a wind of correction. When we’re specific we are decreeing a thing, as the scripture says, and it will be established. When I decree the north wind, for example, which is…


SID: I’ll tell you what, would you do me a favor?


HANK: Yes.


SID: Would you make a decree of the north wind right now that Heaven is going to move on.


HANK: In the name of Jesus, I decree from my mouth and the authority that I stand in, and I decree with the north wind let there come an awakening onto the earth and onto this nation. And I decree from the north the cleansing rain of God’s presence. Let it begin to come and fall upon the land. For in the United States, welcome in your rain, welcome your wind. For even in the natural this is your sign of what is taking place from the north wind of my spirit to rain down righteousness in my presence again.


SID: You know, I have to tell you, for years I’ve been interviewing you and a number of other prophets, and you’ve been almost like a lone voice. Everyone else is saying gloom and doom. I couldn’t get you to say that.


HANK: We have to hear from the Third Heaven. That’s the Throne Room. That’s the highest place. And really what it comes down to is God’s heart. When you’re a Third Heaven prophet you’re after God’s heart. And always remember this. God always has, whether it’s a warning or a word to you or a nation, God always has a redemptive plan. And the Spirit of God said to me, he said, “As long as my Spirit is in the earth I always have a redemptive plan.” Even if a warning comes, what is a redemptive plan? Sid, a redemptive plan is God’s message of help and his message of hope. And that’s why people get caught up in doom and gloom because they’re excluding the redemptive sight of God who always wants to help, who always wants to bring hope.

SID: Now God has always, even from the beginning, wanted to use man’s voice. Comment on that.


HANK: God has always wanted to use man’s voice. He wants to use your voice, and the reason why he wants to use our voice because of the authority that we carry in the earth as his sons and daughters, as his representatives. And when we speak we are speaking with his authority and with his power, and we can shift regions and territories. We can even cause our own life, that maybe it’s not going well, when we start declaring, Lord, I’m blessed, Lord, I declare that your blessings are coming upon me, we are shifting things and we also are breaking the powers of darkness that uses words to release agendas and assignments against us.


SID: By the way, speaking of God’s voice on the earth, Richard Roberts tells you a little understood truth, how to grab hold of your miracle, right after this.

Our Guest John Bevere

JOHN: Okay. Jesus made a statement. He’s speaking to the “11.” Judas has already gone to betray Him. These are the eleven closest men to Him on the face of the earth. These have been His very best friends. Jesus is allowed to have friends, you know that, right? Okay. So Jesus looks at these guys after Judas leaves. And He says “No longer do I call you servants.” Now the fact that He says no longer do I call you servants means at one time they were looked at and merely regarded as servants. That’s not a revelation, that’s a grammar lesson. Okay? Why does God do that with us? Why is there a time in our walk with Him that even though we’re an “heir” He treats us as a servant? Remember Galatians 4:1 “As long the heir is a child he differs nothing from the servant.” Why? Now listen, this is so important that you understand this. Why is there a time when even though we are an heir God has to treat us as a servant? Can I tell you why? To protect us. Because He loves us so much. He doesn’t want happening to us what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. Okay, let me give you an example that’s really weak but it works, okay? We worked for two very large ministries, worldwide ministries back in the 1980’s. One had a staff of 450 people, the other one had a staff of 150 people. When we were launched into our own ministry in 1990 I came up with a new concept of leadership. Every employee’s going to be my best friend. So some of you already know the stupidity of that wisdom. Okay. So I hired our first guy on. His name was John. And I employed my new strategy. He’s my best buddy. So we’re playing basketball, we would even watch videos, he’d hang out at the house constantly, he’d eat dinner with us all the time, bestÖ the guy was great the first year, until I had to bring some minor correction to him. Because at our resource table he was treating people kinda rude. And so I sat him down after a year and I said, John, listen, these are God’s people. We love them. I don’t want you to be unapproachable at the table. I want you to smile more, I want you to help them. And he looks back at me, no kidding, and he points his finger at me and he starts railing on me. Well you’re this and you’re that and you’re this. And I’m sitting there going, “Ho, my, my.” So I immediately look inside, I said Lord, what do I do?  And the Lord said, “Fire him.” So I let him completely vent. And when he’s done venting, I said, “Well you can’t work for Messenger International anymore. I’m going to have to ask you to leave. Well he storms out. He’s mad. And I start crying “cause I really cared about the guy. Now I’m crying and the Holy Spirit speaks to me and says, “He will be back working for you and he will be twice as faithful.” So three months go by, I haven’t heard a peep from him, don’t know what’s going on in his life, I have no idea. And I get a phone call from him. He says, John, this is John. He said for the (laughter). He said for the last, for the, for the last three months God has dealt with me and really spoken to me like He’s never spoken to me before. He said, John, I lost sight of the place God had put you in my life. I lost sight of the place God had placed me in your life. He said I started treating you as common and ordinary. He said I did the same thing with Lisa and he said God has really dealt with me. And he said I am just calling to tell you I am so sorry. I really, really misunderstood and lost sight of who you were in my life. I said John, I forgive you. Well I talked a few more minutes. I said would you, would you come back and work for us? He said “Absolutely!” He came back and worked for us, we never had problems with him in that area again. Now 24 years later I have a new policy. I have 30 employees, right? My policy now is I will not share intimate things of my life with any of my employees until I know first of all they’re very established in who God made them to be in my life and Lisa’s life and until, well they’re very established in who I am in their life and they’re very established in who they are in my life. Right? Are you with me? Because I don’t want to destroy, and I don’t do this because I’m scared to reveal my heart to my employees. I don’t want to destroy them like I almost destroyed that young man. But once I know an employee of ours, a team member of ours is very established in who I am, and very established in who they are, I’ll bring ‘em in.  Some of my employees are my closest friends. Okay? So this is what God says to us: He says until you’re very established in who you are before Me, and very established in who I am before you, I got toa keep you at a servant level even though you’re an heir because I don’t want happening to you what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. But once you’re established in who I am in your life and who you are in my life, the fear of the Lord, I can bring you in as a close friend. Are you seeing this?


AUDIENCE:                 Yeah.               (APPLAUSE)

Our Guest John Bevere

JOHN:  Okay, some of you aren’t getting this, some of you are. Okay, all right. All of you know me as John Bevere, speaker, some of you know me as John Bevere, author, but there is a lady, and she is a lady, her name is Lisa, Lisa Bevere. She knows me as John Bevere, husband, she knows me as John Bevere, best friend, she knows me as John Bevere, Dad, she knows me as John Bevere, Gee Daddy, that’s grandpa because I’m way too young to be called grandpa, she knows me as John Bevere, athlete, she knows me as John Bevere, lover. Now can I say this ñ none of you will ever know me as John Bevere, lover!


AUDIENE:                   (LAUGHING)


JOHN:  That is a facet of my personality you will never know. Only Lisa knows it because she’s the closest person to me on this earth. God just revealed a facet of His personality to Abraham that nobody had ever known before because he’s my friend. Now if you look at the relationship between God and Abraham it’s amazing. One day God makes this statement: Should we do what we’re planning on doing with Sodom and Gomorrah without first talking to our friend Abraham about this? So the Lord comes down by the terebinth tree, has a meal with Abraham and He and Abraham leave the two angels and everybody else, all the servants and they go over to the cliff and they look over the plains of Sodom and the Lord looks at Abe and says, “Abe, we’re thinking about blowing up these two cities. What do you think?”


AUDIENCE:                 (BIG LAUGHTER)


JOHN:  And Abe goes SODOM! And the Lord goes yeah, yeah, yeah, Sodom, and Gomorrah, too. What do you think? And Abe goes “think, think, think.  Okay, okay, wait! You wouldn’t like blow up these two cities if there was 50 righteous people, would you? And the Lord goes, “Excellent idea, excellent idea! Okay, we will not blow up the cities if there’s 50 righteous people.” Glad we talked to our friend, Abraham. Abraham goes what if there isn’t 50. He goes wait a minute, wait a minute, what about if there was 45 righteous people? Would you blow up the cities if there’s 45? The Lord goes “another good idea. Okay, we will not blow up the cities if there’s 45.” So Abraham talks Him all the way down to ten. He figures there’s got to be ten, I mean I got Lot’s, one, all I need is 9 others. Right?


AUDIENCE:                 (LAUGHTER)


JOHN:  But you know there’s not. Now this is what is amazing. The Bible says Sodom and Gomorrah’s buying, selling, trading, marrying, giving in marriage, planting and harvesting. What is all that in today’s vernacular? Life is great, the economy is booming, and if there is a God, He doesn’t mind our lifestyle. They’re 24 hours from being obliterated and they’re clueless. That is not what’s scary. This is what is scary! Everybody say “Lot”!


AUDIENCE:                 Lot!


JOHN:  Who the Bible calls righteous. Okay, let me put it to you in today’s terminology. Saved, born again, Christian.


AUDIENCE:                 Right, uh, huh, c’mon now.


JOHN:  Lot’s 24 hours away from being obliterated. He’s as clueless as Sodom and Gomorrah. It takes two messengers of mercy, two angels, because Abraham prayed, thank God Abraham prayed, to get him out. And his wife was a little too attached, that’s why she became a pillar of salt and Jesus says in the New Testament “remember Lot’s wife” in speaking about the fear of the Lord. Now here’s two righteous men, two saved men, two born again men, let’s put in today’s terminology. One righteous man knows what God’s going to do before He’s does it and helps God decide how He’s going to do it. The other righteous man, righteous man, saved man is as clueless as the world. Why? This righteous saved man fears God, therefore he’s the friend of God, therefore God shares His secrets with him. This righteous saved born again man is not the friend of God. He’s saved, he’s righteous but he’s not the friend of God therefore God doesn’t share His secrets with him. Moses is the other man. The Bible says Israel knew God by His works, Moses knew His ways. He revealed His ways to Moses but Israel knew God by His works. Correct? What does it mean that Israel knew God by His works? Israel knew God by how their prayers were answered. Do you know how many people in America, Christians I’m talking about, their relationship with God is limited to how God’s answered my prayers. My daughter was sick, we prayed and God healed her. We had a financial need, we sowed a seed, and God met the need. Moses knew many times what God was going to do before he did it and two times God literally changed His mind because of what Moses said to Him in reminding God of what He had previously said. Now here’s two righteous people, okay, groups of people, because they all came out of Egypt, they all drink the same spiritual food, ate the same spiritual food, they all followed that Rock which was Christ. We have two groups of saved people. Israel who only knows God by how He’s answers his [their] prayers and you have Moses who knows what God’s going to do before he does it. Why? Because Israel doesn’t fear God therefore they don’t know the secrets of God they only know God by how He answers their prayers. And here’s Moses who knows what God’s going to do before He does it because he’s the friend of God because he fears God because the secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him and he will show them His covenant. Now do you want to see this in the New Testament? One person? (audience laughs) Do you want to see it in the New Testament?


AUDIENCE:                 YES!

Our Guest John Bevere

JOHN:  So what I’m asking is what is the evidence, what is the outward evidence in somebody’s life that they truly have the fear of the Lord? Number One: they’ll obey God instantly. Number Two: they’ll obey God even if it doesn’t make sense. See has God ever told you to do something that didn’t really make a lot of sense to you?


AUDIENCE:                 Yes he has!


JOHN:  Number Three: it means you’ll obey God even if it hurts. Number Four: means you’ll obey God even if you don’t see a benefit. Okay, let’s look at Esther. She’s queen to the Persian king. And her cousin says you have got to go before the king. And you have got to remember even though she’s wife to the king, she can’t walk in that, that court room because she wasn’t scheduled. And if she walks in and he doesn’t point that scepter her head comes off. She had everything to lose and she had nothing to gain. She had nothing to gain by going in there. What, what good would it do her? I mean yeah, all the Jews were going to be destroyed on a certain day. But nobody knew she was a Jew, she’s queen, she’s not going to be destroyed. So she has everything to lose including her head and nothing to gain but she still obeyed God, she feared God. And Number 5: it means you’ll obey Him to completion. Saul did 99.9 percent of what God asked him to do. Yet Samuel still looked at him and said you disobeyed God, you rebelled against God. Think about it, he killed every Amalekite except one person. Now here’s the scripture I wanted to bring you to “cause this is the, I think, this is the jugular vein scripture in the Bible on the fear of the Lord. Psalm 25:14. It says, “The secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him, and He will show them His covenant.” Now I want you to listen to that: The secret of the Lord, or the secrets of the Lord are with those who fear Him. Now I want to ask you a question to all my audience, if you’re watching by video answer me. How many of you have secrets in your life, let me see a show of your hands, show your hands. Okay, what do I do with the rest of you? Pray with for your lying now or later?


AUDIENCE:                 (LAUGHTER)


JOHN:     Everybody has secrets in their life. How many of you know all secrets aren’t bad? Okay? So your mind went to the negative on that one. Okay?


AUDIENCE:                 (LAUGHTER)


JOHN: All right, so let me ask again how many of you got secrets in your life? Everybody’s got secrets. All right. Now this is, this is, I want you to honestly answer this question: Who do you share your secrets with and I’m going to give you two choices. Choice Number One, okay: acquaintances? Choice Number Two: intimate close friends?


AUDIENCE:                 Close friend, intimate close friends.


JOHN:  Intimate close friends. God’s no different. God says I share My secrets with My intimate close friends and by the way My intimate close friends are those who fear Me. Now let me show you I’m not taking this out of context. I’m going to read Psalm 25:14 same psalm out of the New Living Translation: “Friendship with the Lord is reserved for those who fear Him.” So you know what God is saying right there? Not everybody is My friend. Let me be more specific: not everybody in the church is My friend.


AUDIENCE:                 Right.


JOHN: Okay? There were two men that were called the friend of God in the Old Testament. Okay? Who were the two men? Abraham and Moses. Were there others? Absolutely! Okay, I believe David was a friend of God, I believe Daniel was a friend of God, I believe Joseph was a friend of God, many others, Deborah, Esther. But these two men’s lives exemplified what it took to have a relationship of friendship with the Lord. Let’s talk about the first guy, Abraham. Why is Abraham called the friend of God? Because when Abraham was really old, one night God comes to him and says, “Abe?” “Yes, Lord, yes.” I want you to take your son who you really love, who you’ve really grown attached to, the son you’ve waited for for 25 years. And I want you to go on a three-day journey and kill him for Me. Now, okay, you’ve heard the story a thousand times, okay, if not, if not more. But you had the Book of Genesis to read, he didn’t. You have to understand all God says to him this night is I want you to go three days and kill Isaac. He doesn’t tell him why. He doesn’t say if you sacrifice Isaac then I’ll send My Son. He does not say that! Do you understand what God is asking him to do? It would have been easier for Abraham to go kill himself, because there was nothing or no one more important to Abraham than Isaac. Yet do you know what my Bible says? Early the next morning Abraham saddles his donkey and is on his way. You know how some people say, “Well, you know the Lord’s been dealing with me about this now for several months” and they laugh.


AUDIENCE:                 (LAUGHTER)


JOHN:  You are bragging about your lack of the fear of God. Okay? Okay? So now God gives him a three-day journey. Why? To think it over. It’s easier when you heard the booming voice of God the night before. But what about three, two and a half days later, you haven’t heard one word from heaven and you’re looking at the mountain, you’re going to put the most important person or thing to death in your life just because God said do it and didn’t give you a reason to do it. But Abraham goes to the top of the mountain, he builds the altar. Can you imagine his emotions while he’s building that altar? And his son’s helping him build it. He ties up Isaac on that altar, he lifts up the knife and he’s ready to put the most important person or thing to death in his life just because God said do it and didn’t give him a reason. And right as he’s ready to thrust the knife through Isaac, an angel of the Lord appears, and you go read it in your own Bible, and the angel says “Abraham stop, because now I know you fear God? How did the angel know that Abraham feared God? Because he obeyed instantly, because he obeyed when it didn’t make sense, because he obeyed when it hurt, because he obeyed when he didn’t see a benefit, and because he obeyed to completion. Abraham puts down the knife, unties Isaac, lifts up his eyes and there’s a ram caught in the thicket. And out of his inside comes this: JEHOVAH JIREH! The Lord my Provider! Now you’ve heard that before because you’ve read the Bible. But wait a minute. God just revealed a facet of His personality to Abraham no human being had ever known before. Why? Because he’s my friend.


AUDIENCE:                 Ahhh. Mmmm.

Our Guest Kevin Howard

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to get the heart of the One New Man glorious congregation because God’s glory is about ready to fall on this earth, and you better get your patterns right or you won’t be able to contain the glory that’ll be coming on this earth. That’s why as my guest I have Kevin Howard Hebraic scholar, Bible teacher, because… actually the reason God directed me to Kevin is I was given a gift. It’s such a wonderful gift, it’s a book, but it is a hardback book it’s about “The Feasts of the Lord,” that’s the title. I’m just opening up at random and I happened to open up because there’s a 150 full color photographs, a picture of a Passover table. I have the author Kevin Howard who I’m speaking to him at his home in Cincinnati on the telephone. This is… I mean anyone would be able to come inside of the Last Supper which was a Passover Seder with this particular picture here. Kevin this is beautiful! One of my favorite ingredients is here Elijah’s cup because we all… because Elijah is supposed to announce the coming of the Messiah and it’s almost like a game when I was a child. My sister and I would run to the door, front door, and open the door to see if Elijah was there. My grandfather would always send us there. I’m just kind of curious, obviously this was staged but this was the most beautiful photograph of a Passover table. Tell me a bit about it.

Kevin: Well that… a lot of those elements on that table are my own personal things from Passover.

Sid: Oh you must have one wonderful Passover…. No wonder you told me that was your favorite festival!

Kevin: So we used what we use for our personal Passover. So you know people can get the imagery in their minds of what a Passover table is like. You notice on the full page spread there every item is diagramed and explained.

Sid: Let’s go to Rosh Hashanah since Rosh Hashanah is this Friday night it begins. Tell me a bit about it.

Kevin: Well Rosh Hashanah is known as the Feast of Trumpets. Biblically the observance of Rosh Hashanah was the blowing of the shofar. That was the command in scripture “Blow the shofar and keep it a day of Sabbath rest.” What has been carried over till today is the name was changed to Rosh Hashanah emphasizing the tradition that that’s the beginning of the civil year, that is all the harvest is past now we begin a new agricultural year. So it’s known as Rosh Hashanah today which literally means in the Hebrew Head of the Year. So it is the Jewish new year it’s a tradition today to send cards well-wishing Jewish New Year cards to your friends and family.

Sid: Tell me a bit about the shofar.

Kevin: The shofar is very interesting. I’m glad that you asked that Sid because in scripture this 5th holiday, or Trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah, God did not command the people to specifically take the shofar He said simply it was to be a day of blowing, as in sounding the trumpet. Historically the Jewish people, the nation of Israel had 2 trumpets that God had commanded Moses to build and construct in Numbers chapter 10. They were long flared instruments used in the temple sounded over the sacrifices. Then there was also the shofar which was the horn a ram. It couldn’t be a cow because a cow reminded the Jewish people of the golden calf and the idolatry at Sinai. So the shofar is a musical instrument was the horn of a ram. It reminds people of the ram that was caught in the thicket as provision for Isaac’s deliverance there on Mount Moriah. But the shofar the rabbis said that was the instrument to be used for this feast, and there is some scriptural basis for it on Yom Kippur just a few days later God said that on that holiday that the shofar was to blow every 50th year to announce the Yovel, or the Jubilee year. So the shofar is sounded on this day.

Sid: There’s an ancient rabbinic view as to what happens to the devil when he hears the shofar. Tell me about it I love to hear about this.

Kevin: That is a great tradition. The rabbis say that the reason for the trumpet or the shofar sounding is to confound Satan, referred to popularly as confounding Satan. So on Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah, the shofar will be sounded many times in the synagogue anywhere from long blasts, to 3 short blasts, to 9 staccato blasts. It’ll be sounded many many times traditionally over 100 times that day to confound Satan. You might say “Why does it confound Satan?” Well the tradition says “That when Satan hears the shofar blow he will think the Messiah has come and that his time is up.” So it confounds him and it’s blown to confound Satan the great enemy of God’s people.

Sid: You know in your book you also explain what happens in a synagogue. You actually explain the synagogue liturgy. Why did you put that in there?

Kevin: Well I thought it was very important because the synagogue liturgy Sid today a large portion of it reflects temple liturgy in the days of Jesus. I mean ancient temple liturgy a lot of its been pulled forward and there’s lot of good passages of scripture that are read and still preserved in very beautiful readings and liturgy of the synagogue today. It’s very uplifting, it’s very important but on this holiday part of the liturgy spends its time exalting God as King and Ruler, a big portion of the liturgy is devoted to that. As well as His majesty, as well as His remembrances of His everlasting covenant to His people. So those are very important themes in scripture and they’re reflected in that liturgy.

Sid: Now you also, and this is for every Biblical festival, you have the traditional foods. What can we expect on this festival?

Kevin: Well the traditional food, which I’m sure you had it in your background as well the community I live in is apples and honey. It might sound like a strange food for Rosh Hashanah whenever we’re thinking of it as being a somber day of preparing repentance for Yom Kippur coming up, since it is the Jewish New Year apples dipped in honey are eaten to symbolize and wish for a sweet and glorious coming new year. So it’s pretty much universal food eaten on that day.

Sid: Of course you have a chapter in here called “Israel’s Dark Day,” explain that.

Kevin: Well it’s interesting and very unique to me as I look at this holiday that Rosh Hashanah, or Trumpets, is the only holiday out of the 7 that occurs at the beginning of the month when the moon is dark. You look at it Passover begins Nissan 14 the middle of the month the moon is full, Unleavened Bread, and First Fruits the moon is full. Tabernacles the moon is full and bright, but this day the moon is dark it’s only a small sliver. I believe it fits in again with the prophetic significance that Trumpets points forward to time of great judgment. The prophets all spoke about it, and most of the New Testament writers too speak of a time of great judgment called “The Day of the Lord” when God stands up in great wrath to judge the wicked of this earth in preparation for Messiah’s glorious return and setting up of His eternal Messianic kingdom.

Sid: Then of course you talk about the last trump.

Kevin: Yes the last trump is tied to this holiday because only twice in scripture are we told God blows a shofar and it’s very important. God sounded the shofar at Mount Sinai when He prepared to bring the nation of Israel into the Mosaic covenant. We’re told in Zechariah chapter 9 as well as the New Testament that God will again sound, it’s called the Trump of God, or God’s Shofar, He will sound that again whenever he sends Messiah back to judge the wicked, to deliver His people, and set up His kingdom. So there’s a future day of Trumpets when God Himself will blow the shofar.

Sid:  I really don’t understand how non-Jewish Christian can understand the depth and the riches of the New Covenant, or the Old Covenant at all with not understanding the Biblical festivals as you have them laid out in this book.

Kevin: I agree it’s all tied affect point of illustration when Paul said “Messiah our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed for us.” How can we fully understand the work of Messiah upon the cross if we don’t understand what He did as our Passover Lamb? It’s all wrapped up in these prophetic feasts and portraits of Messiah and His works.

Sid: You have some very interesting thing in the book. You have a 10 year Biblical calendar to tell over the next decade when the Biblical festivals are. Now there’s no point and reason why you did not go beyond 10 years is there?

Kevin: Actually I believe it was about 20 years but it’s just a matter of how many fit on a page.

Sid: Oh I thought you meant He was going to be coming in 10 years, okay (laughing).

Kevin: Well hopefully He comes in the next year, hopefully even in our days very soon.

Sid: Okay we go through the 10 days of repentance and prayer and we come to Yom Kippur, what is that?

Kevin: Yom Kippur is the Day of Atonement Israel’s Day of Atonement. In fact it can’t be emphasized enough that Yom Kippur was the most solemn day of the year for Israel and even today in the synagogue. It is the most solemn day of the year in fact scripture says it was to be a day of afflicting the soul which is defined by some of the other writers as day of fasting.

Sid: You know I’m just looking through your book. The print is just so readable, the white is so white, the colors are so magnificent in this book, but you talk about the 2 goats, and you talk about the confession of the high priest. I mean very few Christians understand these things. You talk about the burning of the incense and you explain that. The sprinkling of the blood, the scapegoat, then you talk about… I remember this my father used to share this in Poland. He would, my grandfather would take a chicken by the neck and swing it around his neck and they’d break the neck, and this chicken would die for his sins he would say.

Kevin: Wow that’s amazing because that ceremony is not seen that often, it’s a very rare ceremony.

Sid: Well I never seen it my father told me about it.

Kevin: Well it’s called kaparot, and it still exist today in some of the Chasidic ultra-Orthodox circles, but even that ties back to the basic understanding that a covering for sins, which is what Yom Kippur means, a Day of Covering, or a Day of Atonement, only was possible through a blood sacrifice. In fact that’s what the Lord said “I’ve given you the blood on the altar for a covering (kefar) an atonement for your souls.”

Sid: I’m sorry our time is up we’ll pick up right here tomorrow.

Our Guest Ella Brunt

Sid:  I tell you if you’ve been listening all this week to Ella Brunt and what she had to tell about her son. Her son was… it was this kind of freak accident, they were out on a sailboat and a wind came up he got tipped out of the boat and at the time he was just 6 years old under the water for almost 10 minutes. He actually was dead, they gave him… they brought him back artificial resuscitation, but in the hospitals the doctors didn’t expect him to live. But they had a strategy they had a game plan. They decided they would only speak faith filled words, only believers would be allowed around their son, and they’d only speak the desired result rather than what they saw with their eyes. They had a pair of socks that they gave to a pastor who preached a sermon, in the Bible it talks about taking cloth that is anointed and putting it on a sick person. So you put it on your son Cody’s feet and what happened next Ella Brunt?

Ella:  We had written on there on one sock saying “My victory is complete” and the other sock said “The devil is defeated.” So the doctors and the nurses would ask us that and we would show them in the scriptures how scriptural it was and that’s what we were believing. Of course we were out of the ordinary parents from the ones that they had seen that we just would go by their report and use them as prayer targets to believe God to change. So God was changing the situation.

Sid:  Now Cody in the meantime was in a coma, he was on life support equipment, then the hospital had determined to take him off of life support, explain that.

Ella:  There had been no change in his medical status and after 10 days they have to excavate the patient because of the tubing on the vocal cords were, just literally destroys the vocal cords. So after 10 days it’s just a medical procedure that if they don’t start breathing on their own then they do a tracheotomy and put the breathing machine in that way. So it was 9½ days and the doctor came and told us that it was time that they take him off of the mouth incubation therapy. So they were making plans to do that so we were not allowed to be in there during that time. So we used that time to pray and believe God that during that time he would breath, and sure enough whenever they did excavate him he started breathing on his own and within an hour or so he actually said something. A nurse was working on him and he… because they just talk to their patients just like they can hear and since he was in a coma that was just their regular procedure. All of a sudden he said “Yes mam.” Well the doctor ran over there to see if that’s what he thought she thought she heard and Cody started moving and started responding to their vocal commands move fingers and this sort of thing.  They came and got us and we were able to speak life and God literally put a new brain and new lungs in our son. After a couple of days…

Sid:  How is he today I mean he just last month celebrated his 10th birthday, how is Cody today?

Ella:  Well he’s doing what he loves to do and that’s play baseball. He’s an all-star baseball player and he’s top academic achiever in his class, he’s an “A” student.  So God gave us the miracle that we believed for physically and mentally. He is totally restored and you would never know that he had ever been in an accident. He loves to swim, he is not afraid of water, he dives under the water with his snorkel and he just loves life to the fullest.

Sid:  I have to ask you this question, would your son be alive today, or if alive be any better than a vegetable if you had not taken such a strong stance of agreement with God’s word?

Ella:  I don’t believe so. Our pastor says “What happens next is determined by what happens now.” As we began to immediately just speak the word of God over him from the very start that that paved a foundation for God to work on. I believe in my heart that we would not have him if we didn’t radically stand against what the devil was trying to destroy in Cody’s life and stand and believe for God for life the life of God.

Sid:  Now after he recovered he went back to your church and what was the first thing he said to the congregation?

Ella:  Our first Sunday back the pastor invited us up to the platform because the whole church had been praying and believing God all this time almost a month had gone by. He asked Cody “I think you have something to say about this don’t you?” So Cody just took the microphone in his hand and he said “God always wins.” That was just something that he said, he thought of it on his own and really that pretty much sums it up God always wins in every situation.

Sid:  Now when Cody was under the water for almost 10 minutes he had an experience with God describe what happened to him.

Ella:  He relayed later that he saw Jesus that there was this bright light and Jesus walked out of this light and talked to Cody He told him some things. He could see Him speaking to him but he looked at me and he said “Mom I don’t remember what He said.” I told that he would remember whenever it was time and everything, but God literally, you know, came and visited him.

Sid:  The person that is in an impossible situation that needs a miracle from God right now what is your advice?

Ella:  I would say believe God that God is a good God that there is a real bad devil and that he comes to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus will come and give you life. Just trust we talk about faith and everything and faith is just trusting God to do what He said He would do, and the Bible is full of miracles and instruction for our lives today. We just need to believe God that what He even said 2000 years ago is still even true today and He still works miracles.

Sid:  I love what Cody said I want you to say that again at church, what did he say?

Ella:  God always wins.

Sid:  I think you like saying that too don’t you?

Ella:  (Laughing) I just think it’s got a ring to it. I want to make some bumper stickers on it.

Sid:  God always wins. But what about the people that believe God and die?

Ella:  Well to me they get the ultimate healing you know to be absent with the body is to be with Jesus. So they just beat us there to heaven, but there are some things that we will just not understand why until we get to heaven and that’s not for our reason to question why. But we just do our part and believe God then God sees the whole picture. Just never blame God or be mad at God, but I just want to encourage you to know that God is a loving God and He just loves us and He is good Father God.

Sid:  Thank you Ella. God always wins.

Our Guest Dodie Osteen

SID: Dodie, your husband was Southern Baptist. You didn’t believe in healing and then a tragedy hit your family. Your baby daughter Lisa had, in birth, a problem that resulted in a condition much like the polio that you had. So if you don’t have any paradigm for healing, what did you do about it?

DODIE: Well that’s just about the time that John decided that he was going to receive God, that he knew that Jesus went about doing miracles and healings, not just when he was here on Earth. So he took a train to a meeting where he was going to preach in Atlanta or some place and so he would have time to seek God. And he came back, and he told me, he said, “Dodie, I know that things are different than what we’ve believed. But at that time I didn’t know a thing in the world about healing and he didn’t either because he wasn’t taught it in seminary. So he just said, that was just a little while before Lisa was born. And so when we got this news he said, “We’re just going to pray for her and believe that God will heal her.” I didn’t know what I was doing, but he said, “I’m going to pray a prayer then I want you and Paul,” we had two children at that time, “I want you to just look at her and say thank you Jesus for healing her.” So that’s what we did. I didn’t know what I was doing, but I said, “Thank you Jesus for healing her.”

SID: And what happened to this horrible condition she had?

DODIE: Well she was so listless and all. She couldn’t move. She couldn’t take a bottle. It took 45 minutes to get a half an ounce down her. And so she began to improve. She began to be able to have more strength and then she began to sit alone. And the doctor had told her she may be in a wheelchair. But then she started improving and the doctor said this is a real miracle. So now Lisa is a grown woman with three children, two of them in college.

SID: I’m glad that you and John prayed for her.

DODIE: I’m so glad. Listen, we wouldn’t have had a little healed girl preaching the Gospel now if we hadn’t known about healing.

SID: You did something right at home, you and John. All of your children are in ministry.

DODIE: I know. I’m so proud of them. You don’t know how proud I am of them.

SID: You go to the hospital for a day and you end up staying there 20 days. But then John is told you only have a few weeks to live.

DODIE: A few weeks to live.

SID: What did he say when he heard that?

DODIE: You can’t believe, I mean, the feeling, it was right at Christmas time. It was December the 10th that I got that news after they had done every test under the sun. I was supposed to just stay three or four days, but they couldn’t find out what it was. They thought at first it was an abscess, a liver abscess. But then a tumor the size of an orange and two small ones like almonds. So John just said to her, “Well Doctor, we’re going to believe for a miracle.” The doctor said, “You’re going to have to have a miracle, Pastor.” So we went home that day on the 5:00 train.

SID: Did they just release you?

DODIE: They released me. John said, “I don’t want to keep her here anymore. I want to take her home and pray over it and get the church to pray over her.” And so we did in the 5:00 traffic. I so I looked terrible. I was jaundice. My skin was wrinkled, and of course now it’s from age, the wrinkles. And my skin was jaundice. My eyes were jaundice. And we went home and I didn’t go to bed because I thought I don’t want to look like I’m sick. I just will stay up, my mother and dad were there, until bedtime. And so the next morning we woke up. We laid at the foot of our bed and John prayed a prayer and commanded the cancer to leave me. Like Jesus commanded the fig tree to wither and die, he said “Cancer, you leave my wife. Don’t you ever come back again, in Jesus’ name.” These words stuck with  me, Sid. “I need her, Jesus. The church needs her. The children need her. Her mother and daddy need her, and you need her, Jesus.” I never will forget that. As far as I was concerned, on December 11th, I believe I received healing of cancer.

SID: But wait, you weren’t healed.

DODIE: I wasn’t healed.

SID: This went on for several years. So why did you believe it started at that moment?

DODIE: I had to have a starting point otherwise I would have lost it.

SID: Did you believe that you were healed?

DODIE: I believed when my husband prayed he had commanded power. I had faith in John Osteen. I had faith in God and his belief in God.

SID: She learned how to stand on the Word of God, but it was beyond that. You literally did that.

DODIE: I did. I got my little Bible and I stood on it. My feet aren’t very big because of polio, so they fit on my little Bible. And I said, “Jesus, I’m standing on your Word. I don’t know anything else to do.” I stood on the Word of God and I have been ever since.

SID: Now God spoke to you because you knew, she knew Oral Roberts, T.L. Osborn, all the great healing evangelists, and John Osteen her husband, and they all could pray for her.

DODIE: They did.

SID: But then God said to you, tell me what God said.

DODIE: God spoke to me one night and he said, “You’ve had Brother Roberts pray, you had Brother Osborn pray, Brother Hagin,” he said, “but it’s up to you and me. It’s between you and me.” So I realized I’d better get with it.

SID: Tell me some of the things you did. Tell me about the pictures.

DODIE: I put pictures up of me, of John and I at our wedding and then I put a picture up of me when I was 38, I think.

SID: Why did you do that?

DODIE: Just to remind me of how I was healthy and strong, and that I would be that way again someday.

SID: And you know something else that impressed me?

DODIE: What?

SID: You refused to talk about the suffering, the pain, that you’re feeling sick and tired. Why would you do that?

DODIE: Because I didn’t want to bring, we’re snared with the words of our mouth and I didn’t want to be snared. I wanted Jesus to hear good things coming out. So when the children would say, “Mother, how are you today,” I would say, “I’m blessed. I’m so blessed.” And we lived where we had a long driveway out in Humble at that time, and I would take mail out or checked on the mail, bring it back, and I would say, “I trust Jesus to heal me,” all the way up to the mailbox. I just did it. Now I still, when I see a cemetery, “No, devil, you will not take me. You’ve [?] to steal!” I said it loud, too. There’s people with me. I don’t care. Just let them know I’m a fanatic. I’m alive.

SID: Now you’re a fanatic.

DODIE: I’m a fanatic.

SID: About saying God’s Word out loud, meditating.

DODIE: Where would I be, Sid?

SID: Tell me if you hadn’t learned to meditate on God’s promises, do you think you’d be sitting here right now?

DODIE: No I don’t. If I hadn’t stored up the Word of God in my heart, those years that we had been married, I married when we were 22. I was 48 then. If I hadn’t stirred up the Word of God, if John hadn’t learned about the healing that did and I hadn’t stirred, he used to tell us, “Stir the Word of God in your heart for use when needed. You may not need it now, but someday you will.”

SID: Tell me a few scriptures. I want you, what you say when you’re by yourself, out loud with the same attitude. I’d like you to do that.

DODIE: Okay. I will not die, but I’ll live and declare the works of the Lord. He sent his Word and healed them, and saved them from their destruction. I will restore health unto you and heal you of your wounds. Every day I read all these, Sid. I have in my little iPad I read them every day of the week. I have not missed a day reading them. I don’t leave the house without reading them.

SID: But you, I’m sure had many bouts with fear.

DODIE: I did. In the middle of the night I would wake up and I was just thinking and when John was asleep right there by me, I’m thinking the devil would say, “You’re not really healed. You think you are, but you’re not.” And I would say, “No devil, you will not tempt me with that. You will not keep harassing me with those words. I shall not die, but I shall live and declare the works of the Lord.” And the devil would say, “You’ll wear that pink dress to your funeral. I’ll see to it.”

SID: And what would you do when he’d say that?

DODIE: And I’d say no. I’d replace that with a good thought, with the Word of God. I’d just replace his word with the Word of God.

SID: Okay. It was a process.

DODIE: It was a process.

SID: And she did get healed. In fact, I’ve read some doctors’ reports outside of one of her books and she really did. And if God will do that for Dodie, it’s not just healing. The promises of God, standing on the Word of God, the faith to stand on the Word of God, this woman lived it. However, I have her here for a purpose and that is she has a gift of the Spirit that we’re going to talk about. It’s a gift that is the most important gift on the planet, and I want her to pray for you to have that impartation when we come back. Don’t go away.


Our Guest Margy Palm

Sid: I have on the telephone someone that everyone listening will agree is red hot for Jesus her name is Margy Palm. I’m speaking to her at her house in San Antonio Texas this housewife, mother of 2 small children on December 11, 1981 was praying in the Spirit and God directed her to go to a particular place and when she got out of her car a gun went into her back and it was she didn’t realize that this man was on the 10 Most Wanted List of the FBI. He had brutally raped and murdered 30 woman previously one just a few hours before. And all of the woman that he had raped and murdered looked a particular way exactly the way that Margy looked. She got into the car and she found a supernatural compassion and love pouring out of her for this man. He didn’t look like anyone you’d want to love he didn’t talk like any one that you’d want to love. I mean vulgarity coming out of his mouth talking about rape and talking about how he murdered people. She didn’t even know how bad it was but it was bad by what she just heard. But there was a supernatural peace and he said “Lady I’ve never met anyone like you before I feel love pouring out of you.” And so Margy then he said “I want you to buy me some beer and cigarettes.” I mean you really had won some trust.

Margy: Hm hm.

Sid: For him to even say that to you.

Margy: Yeah well it was getting to the point where every time he’d say some horrible word he would say “You know I’m so sorry I said that I’m really sorry about that so (Laughing).  But the reason I went into this a 7-11 and did this was because previous to that he said “You know I’m never going back to prison I’ve been in and out of prison since I was 14 and I’m never going back.” And I said “Well you’re in a prison of hatred and there are evangelists that go into prisons.” And he said “Well like who?” And for some reason I named this evangelist and his name is Kenneth Copeland and I have no idea why I named his name at that time it just came out.  And you know I’ll tell you about that later but he just latched on to this name and he said “Well I want to meet this man.” And I said “Well I don’t know him personally.” And he said “Well I want to meet him where does he live?” And I said “Fort Worth.” And he said “Well I want to go to Fort Worth.” And I said “What?” And so he said “Let’s go up through Austin” and I said “Well I know that this is going to sound strange but while you were talking about going to Austin I see a road…I feel like the Lord’s showing me there’s a road blockade around Austin that surrounding and were not supposed to go there and I see us driving up to I feel like the Lord’s showing us to drive to Curville and there’s going to be a bus that you get on.”  And he just looked at me and then he said “Well I want you to go in and buy me beer, cigarettes and a paper and then come back to the car.” So anyway I went in there and there was nobody else in the 7-11 except me and I knew that I could very easily tell the lady that I’m in the car with some crazy man.

Sid: Why didn’t you do that?

Margy: I didn’t do it because I felt the Lord was telling me to go back.  And I mean I know that sounds really bazaar.

Sid: Weird (Laughing)

Margy: Really weird but it was really weird but I felt like I was in the middle of God’s perfect will and I was supposed to do that. I did not have fear thats was what was so strange.  I even looked at the paper and saw that he was headlines of the paper and I was not afraid.

Sid:  Do you recall what the headlines said?

Margy: Well the headlines of those papers that paper no I don’t.

Sid: Alright go ahead.

Margy: Well anyway I took the paper and everything back to the car and when he opened the paper and looked at it. And I had told him I said “Now I don’t want you to read me what you’ve done so you can read it but I don’t want to hear what you’ve done.” So he said “Well I’m going to read you this one part lady because” and he read me this first part of this article and it said that there was a road blockade around Austin just what I had told him.”

Sid:  What you had seen in your vision.

Margy: What I had seen in the vision God had given me so he said “How did you know this?” And I said “Because I know God and He knows it and He told me that.” And he said “Well now what exactly did he tell you to do?” He said “He showed us me to tell  you that we’re supposed to go to Curville and there’s going to be a bus in Curville that you are supposed to get on.” And he said “Well okay.” And it was very interesting because of all of the sudden he’s asking me what to do. And the other thing I notice about him was that he was very articulate and very smart. And I said to him “You are really bright I mean your vocabulary is amazing.”  And he said “I went to New York School of Design and Brown University.”

Sid: Hm.

Margy: And I said “Really.” I mean I could tell he wasn’t just a punk out there you know what I mean he was smart he was diabolically smart intelligent. And anyway…

Sid: But I understand he was on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted List for 10 years I guess it does take someone intelligent to last that long.

Margy: Well when I finally met with the police and they told me that he was on the 10 Most Wanted List they told me that normally men with only over genius IQ will…are on this list.  And they said that that is not unusual at all they’re all diabolically intelligent. And that was very very noticeable all day long this kind of a sick intelligence like a psychotic person. But anyway he just out of the blue he said “I want you to go call your husband.” And I…

Sid: Now this trust is really being pushed but go ahead.

Margy: He said “I want you go call your husband and I want you tell him that you’ll be home later but don’t tell anything about me.” And so I went to the telephone and when I got into the telephone…well it wasn’t in a booth it was just kind of sitting out he got out of the car and came right in front of me and held the gun right on me while I was on the phone. So I wasn’t…

Sid: So he was trusting you but not that far.

Margy: Not that far so anyway I call my house and my husband was at home and it was about 6:30 in the evening and he said “He says your voice sounds so nervous I mean your shaking.” And what happened was when I heard him his voice my voice started shaking all of a sudden reality started hitting me.

Sid: When you heard your husband’s words…

Margy: Yep, yep.

Sid: You went out of this almost spirit position.

Margy: It completely left the peace totally left me and all of a sudden reality hit me and I started thinking about my kids and am I ever going to see them again and am I ever going to see him again and my whole body started shaking all over. And consequently my mouth was shaking and my words were shaking my husband said “Something’s terribly wrong with you what’s a matter?” And I said you know I’m out shopping and I’ll be home later I’m fine I just you know there’s crowds around me but don’t…you know I’m okay. And he asked me quite a few times listen I know something’s very wrong. And I said “No I’m fine I’ll be home later just feed the kids.” And I’ll be home later and you know he tried to tell me well don’t be too late because we’re going out with some people tonight you know and I thought “Oh brother if he only knew where I was.” (Laughing)

Sid: Hm hm.

Margy: And so you know I got off the phone and I was just shaking all over and Steven said of me “You are upset lady what’s a matter with you and you’re scared and I can see fear all over you.” And I said “Your right and but I put my hands out and put them on his shoulders and I said “In the name of Jesus I take authority over all of the spirit of fear and I command it to leave me and leave the situation and you know ask You Lord to put Your peace back and on me and just show me what to do.” And I mean the moment I said the words the peace was back instantly which was pretty amazing and then he said “Okay let’s go back to the car and let’s go do what you said to do what you think God told you to do (laughing.) So we walk back to the car and you know I got in the passenger side he got in the driver’s seat and the peace was there again and he said “I’m going to need some money lady.” So I said “Well I’ll show you how to get to my bank and so he drove over to where my bank and I felt like God was telling me to give him $300 so I I withdrew and I had him get me a slip and I withdrew $300 and I gave it to him and he started crying and he said “Why would you give me this much money and you’re just the most wonderful woman I’ve ever met in my life.” And I said “Well I wouldn’t give you this much money except that I believe that that’s what God told me to give you.”

Sid: Margy we’re out of time will pick up here on that $300.

Our Guest Margy Palm

Sid: I have a woman that no doubt if you’ve been listening all this week her name is Margy Palm and I’m speaking to her at her home in San Antonio, Texas.  And on December 11, 1981 she was praying a lot and felt directed by God to go to a K-mart a place that she normally did not frequent. And she went there and unbeknownst to her a man was waiting for her this man was on the FBI 10 Most Wanted List. He had brutally raped and murdered over 30 women and one just a few hours before that all had her exact profile. He puts the gun on her she gets in the car and all of a sudden she sees scriptures before her eyes that assured she’ll be okay even though this man is acting and talking crazy.  And she doesn’t know how bad the situation is but she knows that it’s bad and she  sees a vision in front of her of her praying for this man. So she takes her hands…she’s sitting on her hands from under her lays them on this man and starts praying for him.  And he says “Oh my God I have a religious fanatic in the car” and she and then what happened next?

Margy: You know as I said I have my hands under me and he said “Lady you can take your hands out. And you know previous to that he said “If you try to even get out of the car I’ll kill you.” And I mean while I was praying this prayer over him he had that gun jabbing in me and he put the gun kind of between us and he said “I don’t know why but I think I want to talk to you.” And I think you know he told me later that he was amazed that I wasn’t trying to get out of the car. Well I was amazed also that I had so much peace. And but I knew that it was the Lord I knew his power was in the car I mean you could really feel His power in there. And any way he tried a few times to tell me a few things about himself and I wouldn’t let him. He said “You just don’t know who I am I…

Sid: Why wouldn’t you let him?

Margy: I thought it would if he started telling me what he did it might bring fear I might start you know hearing things that would scare me and I didn’t want to yield myself to fear. I wanted that’s how I felt at the time I just I didn’t want to hear something that’s going to scare me. And really I actually couldn’t think even I mean he committed a crime obviously and he obviously killed someone but I never in my wildest dreams dreamed he was a serial rapist. And thank God I kept stopping him from because I said “I really don’t want to know what you’ve done that’s not why God’s put me in the car with you I feel like God put me in the car to show you His love and His mercy. Because I kept hearing that over and over all day His mercy endures forever I kept that thought that thought just kept coming into my spirit all day “My mercy endures forever.” And I said “God loves you and God cares about you or I wouldn’t be in the car with you.” And he said “There’s no God that loves me lady you have no idea who I am and he said “I am a very evil man and I’ve done so many bad things no God is going to forgive me if there is a God I don’t even believe that there is a God and if there is He’s not going to forgive me.” And I said “Well my God has forgiven you or I mean He wouldn’t put me in this car with you if He didn’t care about you and love you.” And I started and for a couple of weeks before I even got in the car I had been praying that God would teach me what His love was what the love of God was because I read scriptures that says a scripture that says “Without faith it is impossible to please Him” And but then it ways “Faith without love you know fails without the love of God you’re nothing.” And you know faith works by love and love never fails. So I was starting to realize that I was having this overwhelming compassion when I would look at this man.  And I thought “Why do I care about this man?” And I thought “Oh my gosh this is what the love of God is.”

Sid: How did he look by the way was he disheveled, was he very meticulous?

Margy: Disheveled his hair was greasy and long and he was dressed in black and he was extremely scary looking.  He looked like a character out of a TV show and that’s what was amazing me that I wasn’t frightened of him that I actually was feeling compassion toward this man because he was also saying some absolutely horrible words to me and in the car.

Sid: And you’re feeling love and compassion.

Margy: I’m feeling love for this man that was just being obnoxious but at the same time He said “I feel like I want to talk to you.” And of course when he would say that I’m not saying it like he said it I mean he said a lot of colorful things in there when he would make statements like that. And I said “Well you know let’s go somewhere and talk.” And so we talked there in the parking lot there for a little while and then he drove my car and he was in the drivers seat he drove it through the drive-thru and got something to drink. And then he said “I want you to take me to a place that is secluded but not too secluded I want people to be walking around so it doesn’t look strange that we’re just sitting there you know I want you to take me maybe by a convenient store or something like that. So we ended up sitting by a convenient store in front of a middle school in the middle of a neighborhood San Antonio. He abducted me at 2:00 in the afternoon and we talked the whole afternoon. There were helicopters actually circling San Antonio looking for this guy. There were people I knew that later told me that there were police going up and down the neighborhoods telling woman to get into their home because this guy was out on the loose. And here I am sitting with him in this car. He said to me this one statement that was really surprising me because I never dreamed I was in the car with a rapist. But he said “I don’t know why lady but I don’t feel like raping you.” And I thought “Rape.” What in the wor…who is this you know I thought rape? He said “I don’t know why but I feel more love from you than any person I’ve ever known in my life who are you and why aren’t you afraid of me or are you an angel I mean I don’t understand who are you?”

Sid: You must have been the only woman he ever abducted that didn’t show great fear.

Margy: Yeah yeah that’s true he could not understand why I wasn’t screaming and believe me he didn’t understand why I wasn’t pleading to get out of the car saying “My…wanting to get back to my kids and all of that.” And I was amazed myself, I was totally amazed at how I felt and the peace that was in me and I said “Listen I’m not an angel just ask my husband sometime I’m not an angel.”  But I said “Jesus is not going to appear to you unless it’s a phenomenon but he appears through His people and He lives inside of me.” And he said “His love in me is to powerful for your hatred.” And I said and the Bible says “There’s no fear in love, perfect love casts out fear” and you’re being confronted with this love and it’s too powerful for you.” And I mean I make these statements and I think “Where did that come from it was just the Holy Spirit was just anointing me to talk.” And many many times during the day he would say “I’m going to kill myself and I’m not going to be able to let you go even though you’re the nicest lady I’ve ever met.” And he would also say “There’s no God that’s going to forgive me lady I’m too bad I hate myself.” And I you know I’d reassure him over and over I said “My God loves you.”

Sid: Margy we’re out of time today we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.