Monthly Archives: March 2015

Our Guest Bill Johnson


Sid: My guest Bill Johnson Senior Leader of Bethel Church in Redding, California. And Bill I don’t know about you I’m in absolute awe when I speak and people get healed. It’s never going to get common for me.

Bill: Yeah.

Sid: I mean God was there, God showed up I mean how can that ever get common? Tell me about the time that you were just shaking hands with people and someone had a migraine for 10 years.

Bill: Yeah well that kind of thing has happened a number of times but I was standing at the back door of the church and just greeting people. I’m kind of a feely touchy very affectionate physically so when someone walks by I’ll grab their shoulder, pat them on the back or something as well as shake their hand. I just was doing that to people talking to them briefly as they walked by. And this lady comes back to me 2 weeks later she says when you put your hand on my shoulder greeting me 2 weeks ago 10 years of migraines ended as soon as you touched me. So that’s what we carry that we need to become conscious of a…

Sid: And yet I’ve been at a meeting and you don’t touch anyone you just speak and people all over the auditorium get healed.

Bill: Yeah, yeah yeah. we’ve seen them healed by walking past them the shadow healing, we’ve seen them touch clothing and get healed, we’ve seen them just sometimes just calling out a word of knowledge of a condition they’ll be healed. We just had one happen in England where I was calling out a word of knowledge for hearing, hearing loss and the second half of the word hearing was amplified. The person just heard a muffled hear and ring was amplified they were actually their ear was opened in the middle of the word. So we have all kinds of unusual things happen.

Sid: What is your… obviously someone coming to the Lord is a result of miracles there’s no close second. But from a physical healing viewpoint what’s the favorite healing that you’ve witnessed under your ministry?

Bill:   Oh goodness that’s a hard one. What I’ve been seeing lately that fascinates me so much is that we have so much head trauma being healed. I don’t have a favorite I just have we’ve had over 60 people with bipolar healed. Only 4 of them prayed for the rest of them have been healed either from hearing a testimony or from being in the room when the anointing of God is there and it’s just healing people. We had a gal with terminal systemic lupus of the brain. She was dying she had a blow to her head some years earlier and she was just completely totally healed by the Lord in a meeting. The next day her mother looked at her when she got up in the morning and said her facial features were the same before the accident and she had been completely traumatically healed. A man who had worms planted nest in his brain he had ate some bad food and it was killing him. They were able to do radiation of something to kill the worms in the brain but they couldn’t get rid of the nesting. He was in unbelievable pain, he walked into the meeting heavily, heavily drugged could not communicate well. And prayed for and within 3 days he was completely normal. All kinds of amnesia, total amnesia partial amnesia, dyslexia, I love to see people healed of brain disorders where they can’t read, they can’t write they can’t read a map, they can’t function normally because their brain just doesn’t function right. That’s what’s been happening of late.

Sid: So it changes as far as an emphasis with you is that what you’re saying.

Bill: Yeah, I think what it is I don’t want to just see one kind of miracle. For example, in the Charismatic renewal a lot of people were praying for legs to grow out. Well I think that that’s very legitimate but I don’t want to stop there and say I have a leg growing ministry I want to see what else He’ll do.

Sid: Alright but wait a second let’s suppose I’m going to use this as an example because the Charismatic movement where I became a believer that was very popular people like Derrick Prince used to pray for someone shorter than another and we would all watch the leg grow out. I mean it was amazing someone with a build up shoe would not need his built up shoe. But most stopped at that point, how do you go beyond your ceiling so to speak?

Bill: Well, you have to find out what He’s willing to do. See He said pursue earnestly spiritual gifts, there has to be a pursuit on our end of the equation. And so what I’ll do is if I sense God healing for example somebody’s leg well, I’ll find out what else He wants to do maybe it’s missing cartilage in the knee, maybe it’s a broken bone that didn’t heal correctly. Maybe it’s metal, maybe it’s a metal rod in the leg. We had one guy missing 2 inches of bone in his leg because of a motorcycle accident and the Lord did grow it out. We’ve had people with metal rods that can’t bend full length the full length of their spine they can’t bend, they can’t twist, they can’t turn. After prayer they have all movement restored to them and so these things are becoming more and more common. To me it’s I have operate out of what I’ve seen God do and I have to hold that standard and I also need to push into what else He might be willing to do. So I look for things I’ve never seen before. I look for conditions I’ve never prayed for. You know somebody’s hurting…

Sid: So in other words like someone that has never prayed for a deaf person to be quite candid with you the first time that I prayed for a deaf person I didn’t want to do it, I knew that they weren’t going to get healed and I was right and they weren’t healed. Are you telling me that living on the edge is looking for what God’s never done through you before and going for it?

Bill:   Yeah, absolutely. We had a policeman in our church that went with me down to Mexico a few years ago to do some meeting and he had never prayed for anyone before. A blind lady came up to me and asked for prayer and nothing happened. She still wanted to see she moved down the line she ended up having this policeman pray for her and her eyes opened up. The first miracle he ever saw was God opening blind eyes. And the crazy thing is before the week was over her had prayed for 5 blind people that all their eyes opened every one of them. And that’s more than I’ve seen in my whole life and he had it in his first time out so. You know I think the Lord just looks for courageous people, He just looks for people that love to take risks based on His goodness.

Sid: Okay, we are making available your latest course and it really is a course because it’s a textbook, it’s a workbook of 187 pages 2 DVD’s 8 sessions and it’s called “Hosting the Presence.” For those that haven’t heard you earlier in the week explain what Hosting the presence is.

Bill: Well, anytime if we’re to have you know highly favored person into our house for a meal we would cook the special meal, we do all kinds of things just to honor that person in our home. Well we have the most precious treasure in the universe in the Holy Spirit residing in us. I want to host Him, I want to treat Him with the same respect and affection and honor. And when you do that you learn that the Holy Spirit cannot just live inside of you but He also want to rest upon you. And for me hosting the presence means I live with an affection and a consciousness of the presence of God upon me and that awareness is bigger than any problem I face.

Sid: Are you indicating that you live with that consciousness and that awareness 24/7?

Bill: I don’t succeed at that no, but I certainly do better now than I used to you know that is what my life is about. So that’s what I really work to maintain that, not as a work thing just He’s a person, He’s a wonderful, wonderful person who loves us and is filled with such joy and affection. The more I live aware of Him the less I’m intimidated by any problem that I face whether it’s personal or national or international.  

Sid: Now how did you first find out about this?

Bill: My dad began back in the early ‘70s to teach us about worship and the privilege of ministering to Him. And you can’t be a worshiper and not encounter the presence. And learning how to maintain that has been kind of a lifelong ambition for me is to learn how to live aware of that presence that I felt in a worship service.   For me the normal Christian life should be that we become as aware of the present support in the marketplace as we are in the church setting.

Sid: Alright if you are aware, if you’re in a market, if you’re in a restaurant and you are totally aware of God’s presence in you, on you, all around you people you touch what difference does it make to you? What difference does it make to you knowing that God’s with you.

Bill: Well there’s automatic courage, you automatically have courage. You can’t look at a problem or a challenge the same way when you realize that the Almighty God is with you so there’s that sense of courage. There’s also when you’re aware of Him you would come aware of His heart, His compassion, His affection for people starts to override your bias’s you might have toward this kind of person, that kind of person. So there’s the affection thing. The compassion you start to get moved for people you look around the room and you just become aware of needs of people and it’s very important to feel the heart of God for people so I think it’s both those things courage and affection.

Sid: But you had an experience with the Lord that even magnified this understanding, tell me about that.

Bill: I just had this encounter with the Lord in the middle of the night where He spoke to me He actually woke me up by speaking and He said… I just woke up suddenly and He said “He watches over the watch of those who watch the Lord.”

Sid: What does that mean?

Bill: Well, you know what a watchman is he sits in a tower and he watches over an area to give warning of the enemy’s coming or to notify that friends are coming. And as a Dad or a pastor, or a husband I’m I watchman over my family, over my church, over my city. And this statement He made “He Himself God watches over my watch if I turn my watch towards Him.” So instead of me trying to be everything for everybody just turning my attention to the presence of the Lord in my life He ends up taking care of the stuff I would be concerned about. I think it’s another way of putting “Seek first the kingdom and His righteousness and all of these things will be added.” I think it was a directive of priorities if I would prioritize the presence He would take care of the things that concern me.

Sid: Okay, I want everyone listening to us to be so aware of the Holy Spirit His presence you’re never going to be alone, never. You’re never going to have to rely just on your ability, never. Really when He says You’ll do the same things I have done and even greater this is the training for it…

Our Guest Joel Rosenberg

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Sid: This why I’m so excited about Joel Rosenberg I have him on the line this week. Joel is a best selling author perhaps you read his first book “The Last Jihad.” It made the New York Times best seller list, Number 1 on Amazon but his second book he really out does it. And the thing that’s so exciting to me is that his background was he was a Senior Advisor to Netanyahu in Israel, he was the Chief speech writer for Steve Forbes when he was running for President. He worked 2 years doing research for Rush Limbaugh and on and on. And he’s taken all of this and he comes from a Jewish background, he’s a strong evangelical Christian and he’s put this all in a pot with a prayer. And the prayer was Jeremiah 33:3 and he called to God and God answered. He wrote the book and as you heard on yesterday’s broadcast he thought it was really messed up because he was prophetic and when 9/11 happened he thought “No one is going to want to read this book.” But to make a long story short God wants people to read this book because it’s such an action pack exciting book based on prophetic insight and current event insight that the secular talk show hosts in America they’re not religious at all but they’re saying that this is one of the most fascinating books that they’ve ever read and they get the gospel. Get it, that’s why God is doing it. On yesterday’s broadcast Joel we were talking about I asked you a point blank question and I said “What is your spin on the Palestinian state if you would pick up there.

Joel: Well, I believe that it seems almost inevitable I think it’s inevitable.

Sid: It feels like you made the statement and I feel the same way “The world is pushing for it and the world will not stop until there is a Palestinian state.

Joel: And I write about that in “The Last Days” just the compelling, the forces trying to destroy Israel as well as immense international pressure as well as the internal pressure among Israelis’ who want to be just like the nations as Jewish people always wanted to make peace with the world.

Sid: You know there is I believe Genesis 12:3 is still true today. And that means that God will bless the Jewish people and curse those that curse them. And I have grave in trepidation for the United States of America the greatest country the world has ever seen. I am proud to be an America citizen I have grave in trepidation for our country because we walk ourselves into a curse but I am also concerned about Israel if Israel goes along with this of course on the other side I don’t know how they can fight it. But if Israel goes along with this it’s not a blessing for Israel either.

Joel: No, it’s like taking…it’ll be like taking a child and cutting it in half. It’s not up to Israeli Prime Minister or Parliament or an America President for that matter to give away something that is not theirs to give. And Judea and Samaria is the land that God gave to the Jewish people. Now I have dear Palestinian Christian friends, I was just in Israel with my wife and my children and my parents. All their first trip to Israel and we had a wonderful lunch with our Palestinian Evangelical Christian friend right next to Beit Jala. I have great sympathy to the Palestinians their suffering both under radical Islam and Yasser Arafat’s reign of terror.

Sid: Their really the scape goats in all of this.

Joel: But that’s not having compassion for people isn’t the same as looking at the scriptures and saying “Well, God’s promises aren’t going to happen, let’s just divide up the land how we see fit.” That is bound to be trouble and in “The Last Days” what I basically envisioned was an American President conquering Iraq and then turning his attention not to Iran and North Korea the next elements of the axes of evil but to forcing the Israeli’s to make a make a peace deal with Yasser Arafat. And I began writing the last days in 2002 before my first book was even out and yet it is already coming true that America President has turned his attention now trying to persuade Israeli’s to make a peace deal when there doesn’t seem to be a partner for peace. Now that’s all political and I’m writing a political thriller that draws people in using current events but as you get drawn into this question should Israel or shouldn’t Israel give up the territories and try to make a peace deal with the Palestinian leadership as I draw you into that story the spiritual temperature begins to go up. Because the characters in it aren’t simply on a political or geopolitical quest, they’re on a spiritual quest because of all of the terrorism, because of all of the dangers to their life. You know you can’t just find homeland security or national security these terrorists are dealing with issues of their own eternal security. Which is amazing that God has taken this novel “The Last Days” it’s been out 4 weeks and it’s already 4 weeks on the New York Times best seller list.

Sid: You know what intrigues me Joel about “The Last Days” is one of the premises is they discover oil in the Middle East and this money maybe just the catalyst necessarily for Palestinian and Israeli Jews to get along.

Joel: Well you know Sid people have said for decades that how did it come that the Jewish people and the Isaeli’s are the only people and country in the middle East that doesn’t have oil. That’s been you know a joke like “Oh promise land, how come we couldn’t have gotten Saudi Arabia.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Joel: You know but there are some indications in the scriptures that Israel will one day discover a vast amount of wealth. Discover produce but they will have so much wealth that they will become an envy of their enemies and their enemies will come attack. And I had really speculated this is Ezekiel 37, 38, 39 but I’d really been thinking and praying about that. Okay what could that be and I was doing quite a bit of research, I’d been to Israel a number of times, studied there and as you mentioned I worked with Israelis’ and spent a lot of time there and I began to uncover that there has been huge amounts of natural gas discovered off of the coast of Israel and Gaza and some small amounts of oil. And perhaps it will eventually be proven to be commercial quantities of oil in Israel itself. And as a fiction writer I could take that and say well, “What if that natural gas and oil proved to be of such value and quantity that it could prove the basis for the oil for peace deal. The Palestinians would give up their radicalism and the Israelis’ would give up a little bit of land and that the 2 sides would make a deal. Now maybe a temporary deal, it might not be a deal that lasts but I was in visioning what if oil and gas and the promise of tremendous wealth for every Muslim, Jew and Christian in the region form the basis of an actual peace process.

And let me tell you something else that I find real interesting in your book Joel because see I approach it everything prophetically from the Bible and so I’ve got my speculations on the last days also. But you hit so many homeruns according to my speculation. One of my speculations is not only will they find oil which is going to get the whole world incensed with them but another speculation is the big bear Russia is not dead and is actually going to become a great advisory of the world including the United States in the last days.

Joel: Well, you’re beginning to give the early indicators of my third book in the series will be and that’s where Israel not only discovered oil and make a peace treaty based on it which is the book that’s out now “The Last Days.” But that Russia, Iran, Libya and others will begin to be so outraged by this by all the wealth that the Israelis are producing.

Sid: How did you feel Joel when you were involved with these think tanks, Heritage Steve Forbes Presidential campaign, Rush Limbaugh for a couple of years, and you see all the inklings of what the Bible talks about you can see it in their embryonic stages.

Joel: Well, you know what’s interesting Sid because you just put your finger on why I think the Lord took me to Washington and to politics rather than directly into ministry. Which I would have expected and even desired my wife and I both would have. But you know King David writes that “Your law of Lord makes me wiser than my teachers.” And it’s interesting when we know the word of God we have a sense of what’s coming, we may not have the specifics but there are clues to be watching for. And my fascination for the prophecies in Ezekiel 37, 38,39 the rebirth of the state of Israel, the discovery of tremendous wealth in Israel, peace in Israel and then just a cataclysmic, apocalyptic attack on Israel. And then God’s descent and then it’s the pouring out of the Spirit. Well that’s quite a thriller story and it’s true and it’s coming and the question is when? And by working in these think tanks and by working for an Israeli Prime Minister and working for Steve Forbes one of the really though I think one of the leading economic forecasters and someone who has tremendous insight on the global economy I got to meet people and see research and see inside information. But because of my understanding of prophecy totally fascinated me because I said “I think these things are starting to come true.” And that’s what lead me to write well let me just take that and put it in novel form. I didn’t think a non-fiction book would work because it’s all you know because maybe I’m wrong.

Sid: But wait a second now Joel, what I mean here in this country where you can’t even put up the 10 Commandments in a federal building didn’t you think that this would stop your book when you preached the gospel in it in a sophisticated way? But when you preached the gospel didn’t you think that this would stop it from being a best seller?

Joel: Well I was a little anxious about that, curious about it but look I have 3 little prayer warriors in my family…for 2. But we were praying every night with my children I mentioned before on the show Caleb, Jacob, Jonah.

Sid: Well, look with that combination you can’t miss.

Joel: How could you miss exactly and Jonah you know he’s the feisty one in the family he really rings true with his name. But we prayed every night we said “Lord” kids we need an agent for this book to…

Sid: Oh Joel, we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow broadcast.

Our Guest Bill Johnson

SID: So my guest, at three in the morning, he’s praying, for eight months he’s been praying, “God, I want more at any cost.” If you had known, Bill Johnson, what that prayer meant, do you think you would have prayed it?

BILL: I think so, because I honestly prayed it with that kind of abandonment. As much, you know, as much as I knew how, I was saying, that I will be [unintelligible] and I just have to have more.

SID: Okay. Take me, three in the morning, what’s happening to you?

BILL: Well I, as this presence is on me and this power is shooting through me, scenes begin to pass before my eyes. I could see, first of all, I was reminded of Jacob wresting with an angel, limped the rest of his life. Mary, the mother of Jesus called the mother of an illegitimate child. You know, that stigma. And then the pictures that flashed, I saw myself training to teach for our church. In that condition, realizing there’s nobody there that’s going to believe this is God. No one. And the next scene, I’m standing in front of my favorite restaurant in town in that condition. I could see myself realizing I’m going to be a mockery to the entire city. And I could tell what the Lord was after is, He was reminding me, I said, at any cost. And what I was coming to realize is that if I say yes to this, I may be in bed the rest of my life. I can’t function. I can’t do life if I say yes. I’m giving up my right to dignity. I’m giving up my right to function as a normal human being. And I lay there for probably I believe for 20 minutes with tears going down the sides of my face. I said, “I’ll take it if I get more of you. You can do anything you want with me, any way you want me, anything you want, I don’t care. I’ll take the exchange if I get more of you.”

SID: So you’re processing obviously. You go back to bed. The next night, what happens?

BILL: Same thing.

SID: Same thing.

BILL: Same thing three nights in a row.

SID: After this encounter…

BILL: Yes.

SID: What was God expecting from you?

BILL: I, as simple as it is, He didn’t want me to be concerned about how I looked to somebody else. He really wanted me to fear God and not man. And the strange thing is, is there’s not one of my closest friends that would have said I fear man. But the Lord could see something, it was still there that had not been dealt with. And he seemed to be, entrusted with me knowing a breakthrough, to minister in any measure of revival. You can’t be controlled or influenced by the fear of man. It will cripple you. And I feel that the Lord is really wanting me to set all of us free. And for me, it just needed to be something dramatic where I could love people, but not fear them, where I could serve people, but not be controlled them. And I think it’s essential for what God is wanting to do on the earth. He’s wanting to raise up a generation that can fear God only and love not the life to the death.

SID: I see this aspect about you, but I see another aspect. I see a man that has compassion for people that are suffering.

BILL: Yes.

SID: Where did this come from, this compassion? Jesus had this compassion.

BILL: I would think it’s from him. It’s just you get close and you feel his heart. You know, you feel his heart for anything. You feel his pleasure. I sometimes, honestly, I’ll do an experiment. I’ll put my hand on somebody’s shoulder just to affectionately touch them. But what I’m really doing is I can sense the pleasure of the Lord for that person. And when you sense the pleasure of God for people, it’s so hard to criticize them. It’s so hard to think evil of them or, you know, all you want to do is to sow into their best, to call them into their destiny. When you discover that pleasure of the Lord for people, I think it’s closely connected to this compassion thing that Jesus was moved by compassion. Compassion always brings a miracle. Sympathy just brings comfort in a problem.

SID: You told me that sometimes before you’ll enter a store, you’ll just be still. Explain what you’ll do before you go into a retail store or someone’s home, or something like that.

BILL: Yeah. Well sometimes I realize, for example, I’m going into a store. It’s kind of the people who own it are involved in all different kinds of strange things. So I’ll pause for a moment on the outside, not to bind, not to loose, not to engage in any kind of warfare. I’m just turning my attention towards the Holy Spirit, my affection towards Him. And as soon as I recognize His presence resting upon me, then I go in the store. And I don’t have to say anything. Things, there’s an atmosphere shift in the building when He rests upon you. My whole deal is the Holy Spirit is in every believer, but He doesn’t always rest upon every believer. And that’s what I think are challenges. Learn to be a person that hosts Him in the sense that He rests upon us, because He’s in me for my sake, but He comes upon me for yours. He comes upon me for the sake of people around me.

SID: So correct me if I’m wrong. But what I’m hearing you say is you come to your senses, my terminology. You come to your senses. You begin to tell God how grateful you are for all He’s done in your life. You begin to just have your heart touch His. Then when you walk into a retail establishment, He’s in the whole atmosphere around you. You must change the atmosphere in some stores.

BILL: Well I hope so. We’re supposed to.

SID: Tell me about the time you went to a gas station.

BILL: I was just, this was back when we had to stand in line at a particular station to pay. You couldn’t pay at the pump. And I walked into the gas station and the two people in front of me started, they were laughing, just uncontrollably. And I thought maybe they knew each other. I thought maybe one of them had told a joke to the other one, or something, you know. And finally, one of them broke loose, ran out of the store, pushed through the glass doors, turned around and just stared at me from the other side of the glass. I, you know, I don’t know what happened. But righteousness, peace and joy, the joy part became manifest there and they didn’t even know what they got a taste of. But they really did get a taste of the liberating presence of the joy of God.

SID: I have to tell you something funny. My uncle I gave a video to, and he’s no longer here right now. But, and the video was a Rodney Howard Brown video, and people had that same joy that Bill is talking about right now. But they, but Rodney wasn’t doing anything funny. And he called me on the phone and he said, “These people are crazy. This guy is not funny. I’m funnier than him, but he’s getting more laughs than I’m getting.” We’ll be right back.

Our Guest Tommy Reid

Tommy Reid

Sid: This is Sid Roth with Tommy Reid. Tommy I believe has lived what he is teaching. His greatest desire is to have you do greater than him because he learned as a child that there is a dream from God for every human. And when you achieve knowing that dream and implementing that dream you have achieved your destiny. And his greatest desire is for you to achieve your destiny. Tommy let’s start with the first Jew, Abraham, what is God showing you?

Tommy: Well when I look at the life of Abraham I’ve got a lot of favorite Bible characters but he is my faith father so I love to start where he started. First of all Abraham did not come from what we know as a Jewish home or from a Christian home. He was a son of a idol maker but God encountered him. He had this encounter with God and God told him a number of things. He told him he would give him a child of the family and Bashan but he couldn’t have children. And so as he had this vision from God or this voice of God saying “This is who you are and this is what you’re going to do and you’re going to be a great nation.” One day he believed it and he did two things with that dream and this is the way that Abraham teaches us how to hear God’s voice. Number one he went to what I call the cathedral of God he went out in the open air where there’s nothing between he and God. It was the open heavens he could see the stars, he could feel the breeze he was in this again what I call the cathedral. And as he was there and hearing God’s voice and remembering God’s voice he did 2 things. First of all he reached down and he felt the sand. And he felt the sand going through his hands and he said “I see my children, there’s thousands of them, millions of them. I see my children.” Then he looked at the stars and he began to count them and he was enough of an astronomer know that there was more stars than he could count; “My children go beyond the numbers that I can count.” So the first take we…the first place he takes is dream, he takes it to the open air. I love to take my dreams what God says to me out of the open air. If you want to hear God’s voice get where there’s nothing between you and God. If it’s zero degrees take a walk and look at the stars it’s a wonderful place to hear God’s voice. Number 2 God says to him “Build me an altar.” The second place to hear God’s voice is in the intimacy of the altar. Its here we make sacrifice, it’s here we listen, it’s hear we hear the still small voice of God. And so my exhortation to anyone that wants to hear God’s voice is 2 places to hear God’s voice to hear the best. One is in the open air; the other is in the intimacy of your communication with God where there’s intimacy between you and God. And you know Sid hearing God’s voice ought to be so natural, we ought to be able to hear it as we drive our cars. I personally for 50 years I’ve always driven a convertible because I love to put the top down, I can hear God’s voice. It’s where there’s nothing between me and God. One story I close with I was a good friend of Robert Schuler’s and we had spent Wanda and I had spent a vacation with he and Arvella and 6 other couples at The Balls within the State on Maui. And one day we went out for a walk with him through the woods. You know we built a crystal cathedral nothing between you and God. And as you look at the crystal cathedral we were thinking about that. And so we went out for a walk in the woods and in the back of the estate old wooden platform. At the end of the platform was this hand hewn pulpit. He raised his hands and said “This is the greatest cathedral in the world there is nothing between me and God.” And so part of my advise is that your going to hear God find a place a place of intimacy and a place of expanse where you believe that God is going to speak to you. Does that make any sense to you Sid?

Sid: Well the key that I’m hearing you say is have nothing separate… go out into nature and believe that God’s going to speak.

Tommy: Yeah and you don’t commune with nature you commune with the God that made nature. There’s nothing…I’ve got to picture myself and see myself as being able to see God’s face to face and one to one. That’s the God that heals Tommy Reid when I was a boy. That’s the God that called me when I was a cripple; that’s the God that called me when I was a stutter and couldn’t speak. This God that I’ve known from my mother’s knee is the God that’s there’s nothing between me and this God.

Sid: Well you believe because scripture says that God wrote the purposes and the destiny of our life before the foundation of the world. That’s true for every one that’s listening.

Tommy: Everyone that\s listening? Yeah, I’ll be glad to. Every single person on the other side of this microphone even if you never heard God’s voice even though you’re listening today and it kind of caught you by surprise and your out there and you say “I never heard God I didn’t know if there is a God.” Listen because He’s speaking, He’s speaking in a language of dreams, He’s speaking in a language of visions and I guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that if you’ll listen you’ll hear His voice.

Sid: Tell me about in your new book “How to Live Out of a Dream,” and especially the workbook portion to help you identify your dreams and bring them to past. Why did you set it up this way?

Tommy: I set it up this way because I want people to work their way through dreams. For instance I say that first I remember the first workbook “Praise” I ask the question “What dreams did you have when you were 7 or 8 years of age what did you dream about?” Did you dream about being a fireman maybe so but maybe that dream really meant you were supposed to rescue people. Maybe it means that you’re supposed to be a preacher and give altar calls. Maybe you’re supposed to be a person that witnessed to your Jewish neighbor who needs Christ, who needs to accept Him as Messiah. And maybe that’s what dream meant. Think about your dreams and write it down. And then I say the next question is “What did you do with it” did you follow it, did you throw it away or did you listen to it?” And so the questions are kind of like that and we go from truth to truth. First question is “When was your dream written by God, when you were born, when God created the world or before the foundation of the world?” And so we go through the chapters of the book and ask questions.

Sid: Now you talk a lot and I sure wish I would have understood this I wish everyone would understand; I want you to teach just a few minutes on the battle between the world around us and the world inside of us.

Tommy: I was first going to call my book “The Conflict” because that’s one of the great battles that we fight between we fight inside of us. I saw this big church inside of me but I looked up and it was a little church. Think of the dream that Henry Ford had, he had a vision of putting America on wheels. And yet there were no roads, there were no gas stations, there was no place to even drive the cars. And even if you had them and could sell them the people couldn’t afford to buy them. So how are you going to make a car that multitudes could buy. But that dream concord the dream around him. And that’s true with everybody no matter who the great man is. The dream inside of you, the dream of Henry Kaiser to build the Liberty and Victory ships. It took him what was it a year and 4 months to build a ship, but he shortened the time one time to 4 days to build a 450’ ship because it was a dream inside of him greater than the world around him. But there was a conflict; well my conflict was trying to build a church in Buffalo and wasn’t succeeding. I got an invitation to pastor a big church in Hawaii. When I was working with Dr. Cho we got an offer to co-pastor the great full-gospel church in Soul with him. But yet there was another church inside of me so I had to say no to one to say yes to the other.

Sid: Yea, after saying no to these wonderful opportunities things that people… it’s like unreal the opportunities that were presented to you Tommy. You finally God gave you a vision to build churches in Buffalo and you go there and for 7 years nothing is happening. Between you and me did you think that you really had missed God?

Tommy: Oh yeah, I think there’s times I think that all of us have doubts but not that overwhelming. I still knew it was inside of me; I still saw that church even though I became discouraged I knew that God was going to do it beyond a shadow of a doubt there was something inside of me. There was times of doubt yes. But there would also be times when I would have to move back into the world inside of me and say “God I still believe it.” But there was a time when God really spoke to me. There was a book I wrote a number of years ago with 3 visions in it. And one of the visions that I had I think was a stumbling block to building the church. Was I began to pray a prayer inside of me, the prayer inside of me was “God show me the world as You see it.” Now I thought I knew how God saw the world. I got that from all of the sermon’s I heard that God hates the world and he’s going to destroy it and He’s going to send all of the judgment upon it. That’s who I thought God was, that’s how I thought God thought about the world. And I prayed this prayer “God show me the world as you see it.” And one day I was driving my car and I don’t know who drove the car for the next 2 minutes it may have been a few seconds but I had this vision as I was pulling the car up onto the throughway and I was way above the world. Now remember the prayers coming out of me is “Lord show me the world as you see it.” And all of a sudden I took this, I had this kind of a bird’s eye view of the world and I saw the places I’d been in Korea, the Philippians the cities that I’d been in. And all of a sudden I saw the hands of Jesus nailed scarred and they came toward the world and I thought I saw the world as He saw it so I thought they were going to destroy the world. Instead they gently caressed the world and Jesus opened the world and inside I saw a broken heart. And Jesus said to me “Tommy, that’s the way I see the world and if you’ll see it that way I’ll give you a great church.” And my whole world changed, my message was different, my love for the Jew, my for the… you know I thought as some mistaken Christians have thought that that God wanted to judge the Jew because they had been part of the crucifixion. I began to realize that God loved them with an underwhelming love because He saw them with a broken heart. Everything about how Jesus saw the world changed and with that the church grew from 150 people to 800 in one week.

Sid: In one week! Well you make an amazing statement I’m going to quote you. “The world inside you is the seed you must plant in the world around you.”