Sid: We want everyone everywhere to understand one of the biggest fastest moving heresies in the Body of Believers today. I have Dr. Michael Brown and we’re talking about his brand new book; it’s not in the stores yet but we have it available. It’s called “Hyper-Grace” subtitled “Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Message.” Now Mike I just find it hard to believe that some people are teaching on such a marvelous subject of true Biblical grace. You and I would not be here if there wasn’t true Biblical grace, but I find it so difficult to believe that some people are teaching some of the things that we’ll talk about today and others are believing it. For instance some are saying “Has God already forgiven all of our future sins, so we can do anything we want?”
Michael: Well let see here is what they’d say none of them would say “You can do whatever you want.” The problem again is human nature being what it is; people struggling; temptation; the world; Satan. We know that there is a lot in the New Testament that addresses purity of life and conduct and so on. If you’re told your future sins have already been forgiven; and that leads to a few other things. I have several chapters in my book that deal with this. And by the way the book is written so anyone can pick it up; whether you’ve been saved 6 months, whether you are a pastor leader, anyone can pick it up read it and follow it. I document every single quote even something from the internet; everything taken in context. Nobody treated in fairly; I say a hardy amen to all the good points these folks are making and then say “Caution, caution, danger.” So here’s the thing. If you are told that all your future sins were forgiven the moment you got saved God not only said “Sid I forgive you; Mike I forgive you for shooting heroine, for stealing money from your father, for your pride, for your rebellion, for your lust, for your sin and everything else. I forgive you for everything you ever done; I give a clean slate I pronounce you righteous, My child.” Not only that He also said “Mike I have already pronounced you forgiven for every sin you’ll ever commit for the rest of your life; don’t be sin conscience; don’t think about…
Sid: By the way that’s a very important phrase. I’m the one you know 30 – 40 years ago there was legalism; today there is hyper-grace; they’re both just as bad.
Michael: Both just as bad.
Sid: Legalism you may not lose your salvation with the hyper-grace I think that you could.
Michael: Well you see legalism drives a lot of people away from Jesus; I hate legalism.
Michael: Legalism is externally imposed religion; legalism is laws without love. It’s standards without a Savior; it’s rules without a relationship. And it drives a lot of people away from God because they think that God is just there with some stick. See Sid some people have very sensitive consciences they do one thing. A mom yells at her kid during the day; a guy has a stray thought during the day and they think “Oh no God hates me; God’s upset with me; just like that church that I grew up in you know if the men wore jewelry or a wedding ring they were in the flesh. If I went to see a G-Rated movie with my family I was going to hell.” So now they here a message of grace and forgiveness and you’re accepted because of what Jesus did; it’s not by your works God loves you even on your worst day.” And they hear these wonderful truths and it liberates them “I’m free.” But then it gets mixed with this error that says “Sid the moment you got saved God forgave past sins, present sins, and future sins.” Rather than what scripture says Jesus paid for them and forgiveness is transacted when we come to God and confess and recognize our sin and ask for mercy. So if I’m told “Mike, all your future sins are forgiven don’t have a sin consciousness.” Okay, God forbid I go out and blow it and I start losing my temper all the time around my family around my friends. And someone says “Mike something wrong you’re out of control.” No, no no man you’re putting condemnation on me; that’s sin consciousness; I’m the righteousness of God in Christ; I’m under grace; I’m not under law.” See that’s what is happening.
Sid: What will it lead to if it isn’t stopped; what will that lead to in your opinion?
Michael: Hardness of heart; backsliding and ultimately denying Jesus and walking away from God.
Sid: So that’s the same thing that happened with the legalism 30, 40 years ago!
Sid: It’s the flip side the devil couldn’t succeed with the legalism but now he’s coming in the backdoor.
Michael: Exactly. And see here’s what I’m jealous for I’m jealous for the person that has a sensitive conscience; I’m jealous for the person that says “But Sid the Bible tells me that I’m to love God with all my heart; all my soul and all mind; all my strength and love my neighbor as myself and I can’t do it.” And so we want to bathe them in grace; we want to bathe them in favor; we want to bathe them in the understanding that we are carried by what Jesus has done; He’s our strength; He’s our power and then. And here’s what we need to recognize hyper-grace teachers also say “We are not supposed to forgive our sins to God and ask for forgiveness because we have already been forgiven.” Some even say it’s a sin to confess sin to God to ask forgiveness. You say “What about 1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins He’s faithful and just to forgive us our sins.”
Sid: And that was written to believers not to nonbelievers.
Michael: Right. Across the board I’ve documented Sid in my book quote after quote; they say “No, no, no.” There were Gnostics there were these people who had heretical belief that were part of John’s congregations and that letter was addressing Gnostics who claim to be without sin and encouraging them to turn in faith and be saved. Number 1: There was no such thing as Gnosticism in a hardened form in that day, there was beginnings of Gnostic beliefs but nothing that you could call Gnosticism. Let’s just say that the beliefs were circulating, but what John makes absolutely clear that the heretics had left. First John 2 “They went out from among us.” 1 John 4 “We have overcome them.” So the “they” is always the heretics on the outside; every top John scholar in the world that I’ve read recognizes that the heretics are outside. John is talking about to believers and saying “Look if we say we have no sin like some of these Gnostics say we deceive ourselves.” And here’s what’s really important; anyone that can read Greeks knows this you don’t have to be a Greek scholar. The Greek is ongoing present “If we confess our sins in an ongoing way.” Sid the Greek is very precise; it’s a precise clear language. It’s not saying “If one time when we get saved we confess our sins.” It’s saying this is the way of life. This is why it’s important, I blow it I’m driving here a car cuts me off; this didn’t happen hypothetically. A car cuts me off I lean on my horn and I yell “You jerk, what are you doing?” And I say “Father, I’m so sorry” wash me, cleanse me, that’s not me that’s not who I am I want to serve You.”
Sid: You get your peace back all of a sudden.
Michael: Right, right but if I don’t do that because I’m the righteousness of God in Christ and I can’t even talk about that. Now it allows hardness to come in. Now it allows justification of my sin to come in because hey God doesn’t see it. Sid it is taught in hyper-grace circles that God doesn’t see your sin ever. And every day He looks at you Sid no matter what you’re doing or how you’re living He’s thrilled with you and He’s singing your praises. That’s contrary to the entire New Testament and you have to say if we’re never supposed to be conscience of sin why does Paul bring it up in his letters all the time? Why does Jesus bring it up in His teaching? It’s because sin is deadly and God in His love and goodness and kindness convicts us; not condemns us. Condemnation is “Get away you’re guilty.” Conviction is “Come near to me.”
Sid: You know what I’m thinking? Here we have Hollywood saying “Sin is okay.” We have television saying “Sin is okay.” We have our education system saying “There’s no absolutes” and now we have a large segment of the Church…
Michael: God does not see your sin.
Michael: God doesn’t see it and it doesn’t affect anything.
Sid: Well, that is… I hate to say this but that is a brilliant strategy of the devil!
Michael: It is it’s the spirit of the age.
Sid: It’s a masterful strategy. Mike why did you write the book?
Michael: I was compelled to write the book. Number 1: Because I love the grace of God and I hate to see something polluted. Number 2: Because I was watching life after life getting picked off and destroyed. Number 3: Because pastors and leaders around the world are saying “Mike, please write a book.” In fact through you Sid we were able to bump up the publication date by 5 months to get this out. That’s how urgent it is.
Sid: God wants this… I did what I had to do but it was really God. I’m telling you that you… if it’s not you you have friends and family that are going to get into this heresy. Mike has quotes and he has names. You know I was talking to our mutual friend Steve Hill about naming names and he said “Sid did you know in the New Testament when people were into heresy their names were named right in the New Testament.
Michael: And here’s the thing; I want to help people so I say “Amen to the good things.” Some of these people have gone off the deep end and are not even in the Lord anymore. But those that are Brother and Sisters I plan on being with them for eternity; I’m jealous for them too. I’m saying “I have a corrective for you; I’m reaching out to you; this is such a great message.” Some of them have a great revelation of grace but they got so caught up with it they forgot to stay tethered to the word and start denying scriptural truths and rewriting things. And especially if you can read the Hebrew and Greek you throw the teaching out in a split second. I’ve reached out to them so far without success but I’m hoping that some will recognize the error that they’re mixing with the truth and will come right back to scripture.
Sid: And the anger that I bump into…
Sid: When I talk about “But look at this scripture” and they start calling me names using scripture.
Michael: Yeah, one guy started calling me a jerk on my Facebook page and I said “You know I don’t take comments like that.” I don’t know if he was a believer or not; I said “I hope that you really come to know God’s grace and love.” And he writes back furious “How dare you say “I don’t know God’s grace and love; how dare…” It gets’ really nasty with me and I said to him “You know actually if you were really touched by God’s grace and love expect a different response.” I have a whole chapter on name calling, judgmentalism, divisiveness in the name of grace. Sid I have never seen something nastier more divisive in the so called message of grace that’s gone forth today.
Sid: And they say “There’s no need to confess sin and to repent and the Holy Spirit doesn’t even convict of sin anymore. What a setup by the devil.