Our Guest Gary Whetstone


Sid: We want families of born again believers to be role models for the world. We want to provoke Jewish people and all people to jealousy. Our families are not what they’re supposed to be, children even in Christian homes are estranged from their parents. Husband and wives are bickering and fighting and flying in the wrong direction. And I believe that God has put into my hands a course called “What God has Joined Together, God’s Plan for a fulfilled Marriage.” I am raving about this teaching, I believe that if you have a bad marriage, if a husband and wife listen to this course and if it’s so bad that only one spouse will listen I believe that through using God’s word with the revelation knowledge that God gave Gary Whetstone that your marriage is going to turned around. If you know young people getting married or newlyweds, I urge you to get this into their hand. The course “What God has Joined Together” 6 audio cassettes plus a booklet “Life Changing.” I have on the telephone Pastor Gary Whetstone Pastor of Victory Fellowship in New Castle, Delaware. He is also the head of Gary Whetstone Worldwide Ministries and has founded over 207 Bible Schools worldwide. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Gary had a freak accident and went as we say in Hebrew mashuga, crazy, locked up in a mental institution, nothing to be done with him. They wanted to do an electronic lobotomy that would leave him as a vegetable. Two days before he get’s led to the Lord, he urges the head psychiatrist to let him out and not have this lobotomy. They don’t listen to him they thought “Oh, talking about God that proves he’s crazy.” And supernaturally he escapes from the institution, he runs on the highway and he doesn’t even remember this except he met the woman. This woman goes right through him on her car and she’s shocked. She recognizes that he’s a mental patient that has run away because she’s connected with that institution and she’s ready to call the police and a voice said to her Gary.

Gary: “Do not report him that this young man belonged to God and God had a call on my life.” Incredible isn’t it? Just think about that Sid that a person who was ready to take an action God intervened blinded the eyes of all of those guards, spoke to that woman, and now that woman was in our church and she did not even know that I was that young man until she had been in the body to Christ in our church for about 7 years. Incredible of the power of God delivering a person. You know Sid we had stopped with a fact that that car like went through me and then I literally did escape and did go to Florida. And I remember praying a second time in Florida the only time that I had talked to God that I remember and I said “God if You’re really real I want to be able to go back to Delaware and have a clean bill of mental health.” For some unknown reason this incredible peace came over my life which I now know is the peace of God. And I came back to Delaware they put me through months of evaluation again and tests and could find absolutely nothing wrong. Salvation Sid was a complete absolute turn around and transformation of my life. As soon as I got out of the mental hospital which was now in 1972, a young man that we know that anybody who was in a tremendous traumatic state of that nature is looking for security. What I did is I went back to some of my former girlfriends that I had had prior to becoming locked away in the mental hospital.

Sid: Now you really, although you were born again, you really did not know the word of God, you had not been discipled.

Gary: No knowledge whatsoever.

Sid: Okay, go ahead.

Gary: No knowledge, I mean to tell you. Well, actually I went to a church right after getting out of the mental hospital and the pastor invited me to leave. Because he said “We don’t have your kind here.” And it was really turned me off to even want to know God anymore. I started dating again a former girlfriend her name was Faye O’Neal, and she had known me all of my life growing up and knew what had happened to me in the mental hospital and all of the things and drugs and everything. And literally I married her on the 12th of May in 1972. You know sometimes when we understand the situation of a person prior to marriage we can look back and say “Oh yes, if they’d only had fixed that before they got married they would have been able to successfully been married.” Well, that’s what happened with me, I came into the marriage with all of the baggage of having such an incredibly tormented life. Even though I had salvation Sid I did not have knowledge. I didn’t know what the Bible said about marriage, I didn’t know what God wanted to do with marriage. My wife was not born again, we never went to church and after a period of just a few years I mean I went back into college and started growing academically in business and finance and industry that I was in industrial engineering. All of a sudden one day, now this happens to so many people I tried drugs one time just marijuana nothing serious. In 1975 all of a sudden all of this incredible torment came back upon my mind. One open door to the enemy caused a complete mental relapse. Sometimes we have people that are in our church and see that happen with drugs or alcohol and we don’t really give enough credit to the power of that mental torment and abuse. My wife said “Listen if you ever have a situation where you go back again to that mental process I’m out of here.” Well, she was and she sued me for everything and got it all. But what’s interesting is during that time my mother ended up in the latter part of ’75 had given herself to the Lord, had received the power of the Holy Spirit. She said to me “Gary, you know you’ve got a problem here.” Well I said it’s pretty evident got two small children that child support has given you $15 left a week to live on.” She said “No, no, no that’s not the problem; the problem is you’ve got demonic spirits that have really been tormenting your mind and you need to get set free.” I didn’t understand what that meant believe me Sid at all but I did know this it sounds far better than the mental hospital. During that time, and many of those that are listening today you’ve had similar experiences. Tremendous pangs of depression and mental anguish had gripped me to the place where I had attempted suicide in 1975 three times.

Sid: I read about that time you actually drove your car on the railroad tracks, heard the train and you were going to be… I mean that wasn’t Russian roulette that was suicide.

Gary: Absolutely, you know I had no plan of ever living. I had failed in suicide attempts before and I would watch the Amtrak Train coming up the east corridor here in Newark, Delaware which is right outside the church that I pastor in New Castle, Delaware. And I sat on the tracks of that train that sped by at about 80 miles and hours in my little Volkswagen waiting to be killed. That train was on a different track, I mean it’s incredible what God does. It turned out that the train had had some track problems several miles between Baltimore – Delaware and the rerouted the train to another track. It sped by me and missed me. Well, that was it. I ended up being majorly offended by these attempts of suicide, but one thing I did do which really brought a change. I got Spirit-filled in a small home meeting during that time. And a person ministered to me a Pastor in the region here and he got me set free mentally. Sid, that’s when I gave myself to the word of God. And I said “If God can deliver a mental patient like me, if God can take the pain of attempted suicide and the horrific areas of depression and mental torment that was in my life and break it, God could restore a marriage.” As I shared yesterday, I spent 7 years studying the word of God because of the failure that I was as a man, as a father, as a husband. And I realized that the word of God was only truth that had power to bring change and as well with the Holy Spirit. After I gave myself to that intense time of study and prayer for my wife Faye it was very incredible. As we were going through out divorce proceedings I would pray for her. And then I want you to listen to this if you’re listening because God gives you the same ability. I could see in the Spirit what was happening with my wife, I mean at first she took off with one of my best friends the very day that we separated. You think that anybody with this type of experience with marriage would become very embittered and have a lot of hatred and judgment. But you know God taught me something and that was that love literally has no account of sin or hurt. That love covers a multitude of sin. And I can tell you I remember when we published that article in Charisma Magazine which you’re referring to many times. I had pastors call me right after that and they say “Gary you should never own up to anything that is so controversial in your past.” And you know I said to pastors I said “Look what are we hypocrites to think that pastors don’t have challenges.” Any of you that are listening you know pastors that have fallen to immorality, areas of compromise and sometimes even ministers have the worst marriages in the church. And you know I settled in my heart that year that God was going to restore our home. I not only had conviction, but I gave myself 100% to the understanding of the word of God because the word of God is like it says “That which God has joined together let not man put asunder.”

Sid: But very briefly, at your divorce did… you did get divorced.

Gary: Oh yeah.

Sid: What did you tell the judge and put in demand to be put in the record?

Gary: You know this is kind of interesting my wife is you know standing there and I’m standing there and he asked me, “Do you have anything to say Mr. Whetstone before this divorce decree is final?” And I said “Yes.” The Stenographer is there typing all of the words being said. And I took the Bible off of the area that the judge kind of has you raise your hand to or whatever. He said “What are you going to do with that?” I said “I’m going to read a sentence. He said “We only use that as a point of reference for you to speak truth.”   I said “Well, it’s to me more than a point of reference, this is truth.” And I open up the Bible to 1st Corinthians chapter 7 verse 11. And I said “And I want it to be on the record that this statement governs greater authority than the courts of Delaware, greater than my wife’s desire to be divorced, it says ‘But if she departs let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband.’” And I said “I want it to be on the court record that I’m only going to permit Faye Whetstone to remarry me.” That judge looked at me like I came from Mars and he said “What you’re going through a divorce today.” I said “I realize that and I know that the law is bringing a closure to this area of marriage but I want you do know I will remarry this woman and I will not permit her to stay unmarried, she will remarry me.”

Sid: Our time is up.

Gary: I know.

Our Guest Hank Kunneman


SID: You think Hank Kunneman had problems. He had an adoptive father. He was a disciplinarian. Never said I love you, never affirmed him. His teachers said, you should never publically speak, you should never write. I mean, he would go into his bedroom and weep. But at 18, he became a believer in the Messiah, and in his bedroom, he was filled with the Spirit of God and began to speak in supernatural languages. What happened?

HANK: I had a vision of Heaven that night that I was filled with the Spirit of God. My mom, in fact, was yelling at the top of the steps trying to get my attention. Had no idea what was going on. And as I was praying in tongues, all of a sudden, I saw myself in a place where there was like a golden river and I could see a light all around me. It was so bright. And I could see a figure on a throne. I fell immediately down. I couldn’t stop weeping in the presence of what I believe now is I was getting a glimpse of Abba, Abba Father sitting on His throne. But the Glory was so great I couldn’t see beyond it. And that was a very, very dramatic experience for me.

SID: Now how did your parents take to the fact that you are now a believer in Jesus?

HANK: Well my dad and I had a working relationship. I worked for him and that was basically how I would sense any kind of love from my dad. We had a great working relationship. But he didn’t like the fact that I had just gotten saved because I didn’t use a lot of wisdom. Sometimes you know, when you’re first saved the tendency is you want to get everybody saved. You don’t use a lot of wisdom in the sense that you beat them over the head. I was pretty aggressive, over-zealous.

SID: Okay. They’re not happy with that. I get it. You had severe acne.

HANK: Yes.

SID: How bad was it?

HANK: Well that’s the part that made my dad even more angry. I had severe acne. Obviously, I worked at a service station, gas station, oil. And the Lord healed me at a service that I was attending. The pastor starts speaking a supernatural word of knowledge, calls out that somebody is being healed with severe acne. And I’m thinking, I didn’t what miracles were about. I had just gotten saved. But somebody next to me, an older woman who became a spiritual mother to me, said, “God’s healing you of acne.” All of a sudden, within a matter of days, it looked somebody took their handprints and went to my cheeks and left their fingerprint imprints, and little circles were appearing, different sizes on my face. My dad could not deny it. I began to tell him that I not only got saved, but I was being healed.

SID: But wait a second now. He saw severe acne. He saw it all gone.

HANK: Yeah.

SID: Did you see those fingerprints?

HANK: Yes. But he said this: “It would be a cold day in hell before I believe in miracles.”

SID: But he just saw one. So how could he say that?

HANK: Well I think part of it was, was my over-zealousness and my desire for him to get saved. Something happened. My dad was so angry with me declaring that I was being healed, even though he did see my face was clearing up, he said something to me. We got in a heated exchange. He said, “Hank, deny this Jesus or get out.” We were face to face. He was that close to me. I couldn’t believe it. Why am I in this confrontation with my dad? I don’t want this to be happening, but it was happening. And I said, “I won’t deny Jesus.” Now what he was saying is he thought I was an occult because he hadn’t heard of Divine healing like this. So he said, “Deny this Jesus.” Really, deny this cult in his mind or get out. And I said, “I will not deny this Jesus.” And the next thing I know, Sid, I’m tumbling down the stairs.

SID: He pushed down the stairs?

HANK: I don’t know exactly. I’m not going to say that my dad did that. But all I know is however it happened, we had a physical confrontation and I landed on the bottom of the stairs. I looked up and my dad was raging with anger. He said, “Get out!” I had just graduated out of high school. I had just accepted Jesus, been filled with the Spirit of God. I had nowhere to go. I didn’t know what to do. And so I began to pack my clothes and I remember the surreal feeling of backing out of that driveway that day not knowing where to go, questioning in my mind, is this Christianity really worth it? It just cost me my home. It cost me my dad. And I thought, well maybe I could just go back and patch this up. But I knew if I went back, I’d have to deny the expressive radical Christianity that I was living.

SID: And then his father develops terminal cancer. What happened?

HANK: So fast-forwarding into the future some 20 years later, my dad develops stage 4 cancer. I begin to talk to him about the Lord and about healing. I asked him, I said, “I know somebody who has a healing ministry, Dad. Have you ever heard of Oral Roberts?” He said, “Yeah.” But again, his thing was, he would say it often in life, it would be a cold day in hell before I believe in miracles. So he didn’t believe in it. But he said, “You know what? I know who Oral Roberts is.” I said, “Well I know his son, Richard Roberts who has a healing ministry. He’s having tremendous success praying for people with cancer. Can I have him call you?” I was surprised. He agreed. Richard prays for him. The doctors are amazed because the spots on my dad’s lungs are disappearing and they don’t have an explanation for it. My dad is seeing healing—

SID: Now did your father believe that was a miracle?

HANK: He said, yes. He told me, “Hank, I cannot deny.” In fact he said, because his words were, it would be a cold day in hell. He said, “Hell has a little bit more ice on it than it used to.”

SID: Hold that thought. We’re going to be right back because you are going to capture a revelation of how much God accepts you, loves you and is for you. Don’t go away.

Our Guest Hank Kunneman


Sid: My guest Hank Kunneman is so red hot for the Messiah. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that he came from a generation an adopted father that never affirmed him, never said “I love you.” In fact Hank you worked for your dad and you worked hard! What was that like?

Hank: Well when my dad retired out of the service out of the Air Force he opened up his own service station business and I was just a young boy preteen. My dad the way that he would express love again was no news or no affirmation was affirmation. His way of teaching was very much of a command or a demand. He taught you once, you’re supposed to get it right once. Now being in the service station business my fine motor skills, now that’s not a pun but my motor skills were not very good with my hands, I was not very good at things. It took me awhile to understand instruction so that’s not good for somebody who maybe didn’t have a kind of patience to handle. But the thing is I would say things like “I love you dad.” And he would say things like “Same here.” And that was his way of saying “I love you.” And so my relationship with my dad growing up mostly was built around a working relationship. When I went out to play football and baseball he was very busy working he had to supply for 7 kids and so he never attend any of my games and I certainly never held that against him. Boy when I’m watching other people having their father in the stands or their mother in the stands my parents were busy with work.

Sid: Okay, let me jump you up to age 18 you’re in your basement you get saved, tell me about when you were baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Hank: Yeah, something happened to me when I was 18 years of age I got saved, I got Spirit filled shortly 2 months after that. And I was praying in tongues the whole night after I got filled with the Spirit of God I couldn’t stop it was like somebody turned on this force of power and I couldn’t stop praying in tongues. I got caught up and a vision of heaven and I saw a throne room of people singing and worshiping and a huge bright light coming from this figure that was seated upon a throne. And I immediately began to fall down on my face in my bedroom, my mom was at the top of the stairs and was calling my name and did not know that I had a visitation happening from the Lord. And so that was the beginning of my journey where things began to get very heated.

Sid: But I mean you have the most amazing testimony, after you get saved, after you get radically, I mean radically filled with the Holy Spirit you must have been… I know how it was with me I couldn’t keep quiet about Jesus. Now you have a family that’s not a church family, not raised to believe in Jesus and you have a very severe case of acne. How bad was it?

Hank: Yeah, now needing your affirmation from your father, having your grandparents trying to divide the family and having severe acne on your face you want to have any low self-esteem, lack of confidence have severe acne on your face on top of it. But something happened, I was in the middle of a service and the Pastor of that church started having a word of knowledge he said “Somebody is being healed of acne, somebody is being healed of blackheads and he started naming all of these different words for acne. I was sitting in the second row and I didn’t know understand a word of knowledge, I didn’t understand healing I had just gotten saved. I’m thinking “Look you can’t see that I’m in the second row like this is really God.” Well then a woman next to me a senior an elderly woman tapped me on the shoulder and said “That man he’s speaking by God for you God is healing your face.” Something began to happen to my face that I went home I was so excited I told my dad without any manifestations on my face of any proof of healing I said “Dad I’m going healed of my acne.” He said these words “It’ll be a cold day in hell if I’ll believe any of that stuff,” and it just made matters worse and it just began to make him think more and more that I was in a cult. But something very significant took place in a very short time and I mean within days. It’s looked like somebody had taken their fingerprints and took both sides of my cheek and where the acne was on my face and touched both sides and I began to see different circles appearing on my face like someone’s fingerprints and they were different sizes. You know your thumb is a lot bigger you know than your pinky it looked like fingerprints. The Lord was touching and kissing my face, within a short period of time my acne began to disappear, nothing I tried worked before.

Sid: I mean from what you’re telling me this was not a few pimples this was severe acne.

Hank: Yeah, it was. It was very bad acne, yeah.  

Sid: What did your dad and mom think of that?

Hank: Well this furthered in their mind that I was in a cult even though they were seeing the manifestation of this healing taking place on my face my dad he just could not come to terms that these kinds of miracles could happen today. So I began to explain to him about the miracle power of God, explain to him about salvation. And we got into a very very heated argument to the point where we were face to face. The next thing were in a physical confrontation and it didn’t end well. I remember picking myself up from the bottom of the stairs.

Sid: He threw you down the stairs?

Hank: Well that’s what exactly what happened this physical confrontation caused me. Yeah, we got into it pretty heavy to where I began to tumble down the stairs. But before that happened he gave me this choice and this is what I want people to understand. He said “I want you to deny this Jesus or get the hell out.” Now those were words that today as I share it I can still feel the pain and the shock of you need to deny Jesus. Now my dad he knew about Jesus in his own way. He wasn’t really asking me to quote deny Jesus but in his mind he was saying “Deny this cult you’re in.” And he said “Deny Jesus.” And I knew that I couldn’t deny Jesus or he said “Get out, get the hell out.” And before I knew it Sid I’ll have tears streaming down my face, just graduated out of high school. Wanted my parents to understand the Christianity that I experienced, I immediately started packing my clothes and you know grabbing whatever I could and I left that night and I drove…

Sid: But where would you go, did you have money?

Hank: I didn’t have anywhere to go.

Sid: Did you have money?

Hank: No, I didn’t have any money so I….

Sid: How does an 18 year old raised in a non-Christian home make such a bold stand for Jesus, how did you do it Hank?

Hank: You know when I gave my heart to the Lord it meant everything to me and Jesus I found out later that “Blessed are those that leave houses and fathers and mothers for My name sake.” And so I knew I couldn’t deny the Lord and so I got in my car and I just began to drive and I remembered that I had gone and visited a youth group 2 weeks prior a different youth program and somebody had given their number and said “If you ever need anything just you know give me a call.” That’s the only number to someone in my new found faith, I didn’t have any other contacts. So I called that number and they just so happened to have somebody move out of their apartment and it was in a very very bad part of the city to where gun shots would go off at night and all kinds of crime, and so it wasn’t the most ideal.

Sid: But at least… I mean you had no money, you knew no one so at least you had a place to stay. But what were family times say Christmas like for you when you had left your mother and father.

Hank: What was Christmas like? It was like this I spent it by myself I spent Christmas and Thanksgiving and the holidays for several years by myself because my dad was very upset, the relationship with my parents was strained.

Sid: Now your dad was a smoker and he get stage 4 cancer.

Hank: Yeah.

Sid: What happened?

Hank:   This would have been obviously 20, 30 something years later he began to reach out. And again his philosophy was “It’ll be a cold day in hell before he’d believe in miracles and he gets healed.” The doctors cannot believe that the cancer is disappearing from his body they can’t find the spots in his lungs. Here’s how it happened…

Sid: I’m sorry Hank we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast… finally just before the world is going to have a revelation of our awesome heavenly Father but the flip side that’s just as important is His name if Abba. Which means “Daddy.” I mean most Jews, most Catholics, many Christians they know about God being awesome and God but they don’t know about His tenderness and Hank Kunneman has been chosen by God to prophetically present the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation on the Father heart of God. And there’s a generation for many generations that have never experienced the love of God being poured into them, never experienced crawling into Abba’s lap.



Our Guest Bill Johnson


Sid: My guest Bill Johnson Senior Leader of Bethel Church in Redding, California. And Bill I don’t know about you I’m in absolute awe when I speak and people get healed. It’s never going to get common for me.

Bill: Yeah.

Sid: I mean God was there, God showed up I mean how can that ever get common? Tell me about the time that you were just shaking hands with people and someone had a migraine for 10 years.

Bill: Yeah well that kind of thing has happened a number of times but I was standing at the back door of the church and just greeting people. I’m kind of a feely touchy very affectionate physically so when someone walks by I’ll grab their shoulder, pat them on the back or something as well as shake their hand. I just was doing that to people talking to them briefly as they walked by. And this lady comes back to me 2 weeks later she says when you put your hand on my shoulder greeting me 2 weeks ago 10 years of migraines ended as soon as you touched me. So that’s what we carry that we need to become conscious of a…

Sid: And yet I’ve been at a meeting and you don’t touch anyone you just speak and people all over the auditorium get healed.

Bill: Yeah, yeah yeah. we’ve seen them healed by walking past them the shadow healing, we’ve seen them touch clothing and get healed, we’ve seen them just sometimes just calling out a word of knowledge of a condition they’ll be healed. We just had one happen in England where I was calling out a word of knowledge for hearing, hearing loss and the second half of the word hearing was amplified. The person just heard a muffled hear and ring was amplified they were actually their ear was opened in the middle of the word. So we have all kinds of unusual things happen.

Sid: What is your… obviously someone coming to the Lord is a result of miracles there’s no close second. But from a physical healing viewpoint what’s the favorite healing that you’ve witnessed under your ministry?

Bill:   Oh goodness that’s a hard one. What I’ve been seeing lately that fascinates me so much is that we have so much head trauma being healed. I don’t have a favorite I just have we’ve had over 60 people with bipolar healed. Only 4 of them prayed for the rest of them have been healed either from hearing a testimony or from being in the room when the anointing of God is there and it’s just healing people. We had a gal with terminal systemic lupus of the brain. She was dying she had a blow to her head some years earlier and she was just completely totally healed by the Lord in a meeting. The next day her mother looked at her when she got up in the morning and said her facial features were the same before the accident and she had been completely traumatically healed. A man who had worms planted nest in his brain he had ate some bad food and it was killing him. They were able to do radiation of something to kill the worms in the brain but they couldn’t get rid of the nesting. He was in unbelievable pain, he walked into the meeting heavily, heavily drugged could not communicate well. And prayed for and within 3 days he was completely normal. All kinds of amnesia, total amnesia partial amnesia, dyslexia, I love to see people healed of brain disorders where they can’t read, they can’t write they can’t read a map, they can’t function normally because their brain just doesn’t function right. That’s what’s been happening of late.

Sid: So it changes as far as an emphasis with you is that what you’re saying.

Bill: Yeah, I think what it is I don’t want to just see one kind of miracle. For example, in the Charismatic renewal a lot of people were praying for legs to grow out. Well I think that that’s very legitimate but I don’t want to stop there and say I have a leg growing ministry I want to see what else He’ll do.

Sid: Alright but wait a second let’s suppose I’m going to use this as an example because the Charismatic movement where I became a believer that was very popular people like Derrick Prince used to pray for someone shorter than another and we would all watch the leg grow out. I mean it was amazing someone with a build up shoe would not need his built up shoe. But most stopped at that point, how do you go beyond your ceiling so to speak?

Bill: Well, you have to find out what He’s willing to do. See He said pursue earnestly spiritual gifts, there has to be a pursuit on our end of the equation. And so what I’ll do is if I sense God healing for example somebody’s leg well, I’ll find out what else He wants to do maybe it’s missing cartilage in the knee, maybe it’s a broken bone that didn’t heal correctly. Maybe it’s metal, maybe it’s a metal rod in the leg. We had one guy missing 2 inches of bone in his leg because of a motorcycle accident and the Lord did grow it out. We’ve had people with metal rods that can’t bend full length the full length of their spine they can’t bend, they can’t twist, they can’t turn. After prayer they have all movement restored to them and so these things are becoming more and more common. To me it’s I have operate out of what I’ve seen God do and I have to hold that standard and I also need to push into what else He might be willing to do. So I look for things I’ve never seen before. I look for conditions I’ve never prayed for. You know somebody’s hurting…

Sid: So in other words like someone that has never prayed for a deaf person to be quite candid with you the first time that I prayed for a deaf person I didn’t want to do it, I knew that they weren’t going to get healed and I was right and they weren’t healed. Are you telling me that living on the edge is looking for what God’s never done through you before and going for it?

Bill:   Yeah, absolutely. We had a policeman in our church that went with me down to Mexico a few years ago to do some meeting and he had never prayed for anyone before. A blind lady came up to me and asked for prayer and nothing happened. She still wanted to see she moved down the line she ended up having this policeman pray for her and her eyes opened up. The first miracle he ever saw was God opening blind eyes. And the crazy thing is before the week was over her had prayed for 5 blind people that all their eyes opened every one of them. And that’s more than I’ve seen in my whole life and he had it in his first time out so. You know I think the Lord just looks for courageous people, He just looks for people that love to take risks based on His goodness.

Sid: Okay, we are making available your latest course and it really is a course because it’s a textbook, it’s a workbook of 187 pages 2 DVD’s 8 sessions and it’s called “Hosting the Presence.” For those that haven’t heard you earlier in the week explain what Hosting the presence is.

Bill: Well, anytime if we’re to have you know highly favored person into our house for a meal we would cook the special meal, we do all kinds of things just to honor that person in our home. Well we have the most precious treasure in the universe in the Holy Spirit residing in us. I want to host Him, I want to treat Him with the same respect and affection and honor. And when you do that you learn that the Holy Spirit cannot just live inside of you but He also want to rest upon you. And for me hosting the presence means I live with an affection and a consciousness of the presence of God upon me and that awareness is bigger than any problem I face.

Sid: Are you indicating that you live with that consciousness and that awareness 24/7?

Bill: I don’t succeed at that no, but I certainly do better now than I used to you know that is what my life is about. So that’s what I really work to maintain that, not as a work thing just He’s a person, He’s a wonderful, wonderful person who loves us and is filled with such joy and affection. The more I live aware of Him the less I’m intimidated by any problem that I face whether it’s personal or national or international.  

Sid: Now how did you first find out about this?

Bill: My dad began back in the early ‘70s to teach us about worship and the privilege of ministering to Him. And you can’t be a worshiper and not encounter the presence. And learning how to maintain that has been kind of a lifelong ambition for me is to learn how to live aware of that presence that I felt in a worship service.   For me the normal Christian life should be that we become as aware of the present support in the marketplace as we are in the church setting.

Sid: Alright if you are aware, if you’re in a market, if you’re in a restaurant and you are totally aware of God’s presence in you, on you, all around you people you touch what difference does it make to you? What difference does it make to you knowing that God’s with you.

Bill: Well there’s automatic courage, you automatically have courage. You can’t look at a problem or a challenge the same way when you realize that the Almighty God is with you so there’s that sense of courage. There’s also when you’re aware of Him you would come aware of His heart, His compassion, His affection for people starts to override your bias’s you might have toward this kind of person, that kind of person. So there’s the affection thing. The compassion you start to get moved for people you look around the room and you just become aware of needs of people and it’s very important to feel the heart of God for people so I think it’s both those things courage and affection.

Sid: But you had an experience with the Lord that even magnified this understanding, tell me about that.

Bill: I just had this encounter with the Lord in the middle of the night where He spoke to me He actually woke me up by speaking and He said… I just woke up suddenly and He said “He watches over the watch of those who watch the Lord.”

Sid: What does that mean?

Bill: Well, you know what a watchman is he sits in a tower and he watches over an area to give warning of the enemy’s coming or to notify that friends are coming. And as a Dad or a pastor, or a husband I’m I watchman over my family, over my church, over my city. And this statement He made “He Himself God watches over my watch if I turn my watch towards Him.” So instead of me trying to be everything for everybody just turning my attention to the presence of the Lord in my life He ends up taking care of the stuff I would be concerned about. I think it’s another way of putting “Seek first the kingdom and His righteousness and all of these things will be added.” I think it was a directive of priorities if I would prioritize the presence He would take care of the things that concern me.

Sid: Okay, I want everyone listening to us to be so aware of the Holy Spirit His presence you’re never going to be alone, never. You’re never going to have to rely just on your ability, never. Really when He says You’ll do the same things I have done and even greater this is the training for it…

Our Guest Joel Rosenberg

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Sid: This why I’m so excited about Joel Rosenberg I have him on the line this week. Joel is a best selling author perhaps you read his first book “The Last Jihad.” It made the New York Times best seller list, Number 1 on Amazon but his second book he really out does it. And the thing that’s so exciting to me is that his background was he was a Senior Advisor to Netanyahu in Israel, he was the Chief speech writer for Steve Forbes when he was running for President. He worked 2 years doing research for Rush Limbaugh and on and on. And he’s taken all of this and he comes from a Jewish background, he’s a strong evangelical Christian and he’s put this all in a pot with a prayer. And the prayer was Jeremiah 33:3 and he called to God and God answered. He wrote the book and as you heard on yesterday’s broadcast he thought it was really messed up because he was prophetic and when 9/11 happened he thought “No one is going to want to read this book.” But to make a long story short God wants people to read this book because it’s such an action pack exciting book based on prophetic insight and current event insight that the secular talk show hosts in America they’re not religious at all but they’re saying that this is one of the most fascinating books that they’ve ever read and they get the gospel. Get it, that’s why God is doing it. On yesterday’s broadcast Joel we were talking about I asked you a point blank question and I said “What is your spin on the Palestinian state if you would pick up there.

Joel: Well, I believe that it seems almost inevitable I think it’s inevitable.

Sid: It feels like you made the statement and I feel the same way “The world is pushing for it and the world will not stop until there is a Palestinian state.

Joel: And I write about that in “The Last Days” just the compelling, the forces trying to destroy Israel as well as immense international pressure as well as the internal pressure among Israelis’ who want to be just like the nations as Jewish people always wanted to make peace with the world.

Sid: You know there is I believe Genesis 12:3 is still true today. And that means that God will bless the Jewish people and curse those that curse them. And I have grave in trepidation for the United States of America the greatest country the world has ever seen. I am proud to be an America citizen I have grave in trepidation for our country because we walk ourselves into a curse but I am also concerned about Israel if Israel goes along with this of course on the other side I don’t know how they can fight it. But if Israel goes along with this it’s not a blessing for Israel either.

Joel: No, it’s like taking…it’ll be like taking a child and cutting it in half. It’s not up to Israeli Prime Minister or Parliament or an America President for that matter to give away something that is not theirs to give. And Judea and Samaria is the land that God gave to the Jewish people. Now I have dear Palestinian Christian friends, I was just in Israel with my wife and my children and my parents. All their first trip to Israel and we had a wonderful lunch with our Palestinian Evangelical Christian friend right next to Beit Jala. I have great sympathy to the Palestinians their suffering both under radical Islam and Yasser Arafat’s reign of terror.

Sid: Their really the scape goats in all of this.

Joel: But that’s not having compassion for people isn’t the same as looking at the scriptures and saying “Well, God’s promises aren’t going to happen, let’s just divide up the land how we see fit.” That is bound to be trouble and in “The Last Days” what I basically envisioned was an American President conquering Iraq and then turning his attention not to Iran and North Korea the next elements of the axes of evil but to forcing the Israeli’s to make a make a peace deal with Yasser Arafat. And I began writing the last days in 2002 before my first book was even out and yet it is already coming true that America President has turned his attention now trying to persuade Israeli’s to make a peace deal when there doesn’t seem to be a partner for peace. Now that’s all political and I’m writing a political thriller that draws people in using current events but as you get drawn into this question should Israel or shouldn’t Israel give up the territories and try to make a peace deal with the Palestinian leadership as I draw you into that story the spiritual temperature begins to go up. Because the characters in it aren’t simply on a political or geopolitical quest, they’re on a spiritual quest because of all of the terrorism, because of all of the dangers to their life. You know you can’t just find homeland security or national security these terrorists are dealing with issues of their own eternal security. Which is amazing that God has taken this novel “The Last Days” it’s been out 4 weeks and it’s already 4 weeks on the New York Times best seller list.

Sid: You know what intrigues me Joel about “The Last Days” is one of the premises is they discover oil in the Middle East and this money maybe just the catalyst necessarily for Palestinian and Israeli Jews to get along.

Joel: Well you know Sid people have said for decades that how did it come that the Jewish people and the Isaeli’s are the only people and country in the middle East that doesn’t have oil. That’s been you know a joke like “Oh promise land, how come we couldn’t have gotten Saudi Arabia.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Joel: You know but there are some indications in the scriptures that Israel will one day discover a vast amount of wealth. Discover produce but they will have so much wealth that they will become an envy of their enemies and their enemies will come attack. And I had really speculated this is Ezekiel 37, 38, 39 but I’d really been thinking and praying about that. Okay what could that be and I was doing quite a bit of research, I’d been to Israel a number of times, studied there and as you mentioned I worked with Israelis’ and spent a lot of time there and I began to uncover that there has been huge amounts of natural gas discovered off of the coast of Israel and Gaza and some small amounts of oil. And perhaps it will eventually be proven to be commercial quantities of oil in Israel itself. And as a fiction writer I could take that and say well, “What if that natural gas and oil proved to be of such value and quantity that it could prove the basis for the oil for peace deal. The Palestinians would give up their radicalism and the Israelis’ would give up a little bit of land and that the 2 sides would make a deal. Now maybe a temporary deal, it might not be a deal that lasts but I was in visioning what if oil and gas and the promise of tremendous wealth for every Muslim, Jew and Christian in the region form the basis of an actual peace process.

And let me tell you something else that I find real interesting in your book Joel because see I approach it everything prophetically from the Bible and so I’ve got my speculations on the last days also. But you hit so many homeruns according to my speculation. One of my speculations is not only will they find oil which is going to get the whole world incensed with them but another speculation is the big bear Russia is not dead and is actually going to become a great advisory of the world including the United States in the last days.

Joel: Well, you’re beginning to give the early indicators of my third book in the series will be and that’s where Israel not only discovered oil and make a peace treaty based on it which is the book that’s out now “The Last Days.” But that Russia, Iran, Libya and others will begin to be so outraged by this by all the wealth that the Israelis are producing.

Sid: How did you feel Joel when you were involved with these think tanks, Heritage Steve Forbes Presidential campaign, Rush Limbaugh for a couple of years, and you see all the inklings of what the Bible talks about you can see it in their embryonic stages.

Joel: Well, you know what’s interesting Sid because you just put your finger on why I think the Lord took me to Washington and to politics rather than directly into ministry. Which I would have expected and even desired my wife and I both would have. But you know King David writes that “Your law of Lord makes me wiser than my teachers.” And it’s interesting when we know the word of God we have a sense of what’s coming, we may not have the specifics but there are clues to be watching for. And my fascination for the prophecies in Ezekiel 37, 38,39 the rebirth of the state of Israel, the discovery of tremendous wealth in Israel, peace in Israel and then just a cataclysmic, apocalyptic attack on Israel. And then God’s descent and then it’s the pouring out of the Spirit. Well that’s quite a thriller story and it’s true and it’s coming and the question is when? And by working in these think tanks and by working for an Israeli Prime Minister and working for Steve Forbes one of the really though I think one of the leading economic forecasters and someone who has tremendous insight on the global economy I got to meet people and see research and see inside information. But because of my understanding of prophecy totally fascinated me because I said “I think these things are starting to come true.” And that’s what lead me to write well let me just take that and put it in novel form. I didn’t think a non-fiction book would work because it’s all you know because maybe I’m wrong.

Sid: But wait a second now Joel, what I mean here in this country where you can’t even put up the 10 Commandments in a federal building didn’t you think that this would stop your book when you preached the gospel in it in a sophisticated way? But when you preached the gospel didn’t you think that this would stop it from being a best seller?

Joel: Well I was a little anxious about that, curious about it but look I have 3 little prayer warriors in my family…for 2. But we were praying every night with my children I mentioned before on the show Caleb, Jacob, Jonah.

Sid: Well, look with that combination you can’t miss.

Joel: How could you miss exactly and Jonah you know he’s the feisty one in the family he really rings true with his name. But we prayed every night we said “Lord” kids we need an agent for this book to…

Sid: Oh Joel, we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow broadcast.

Our Guest Bill Johnson

SID: So my guest, at three in the morning, he’s praying, for eight months he’s been praying, “God, I want more at any cost.” If you had known, Bill Johnson, what that prayer meant, do you think you would have prayed it?

BILL: I think so, because I honestly prayed it with that kind of abandonment. As much, you know, as much as I knew how, I was saying, that I will be [unintelligible] and I just have to have more.

SID: Okay. Take me, three in the morning, what’s happening to you?

BILL: Well I, as this presence is on me and this power is shooting through me, scenes begin to pass before my eyes. I could see, first of all, I was reminded of Jacob wresting with an angel, limped the rest of his life. Mary, the mother of Jesus called the mother of an illegitimate child. You know, that stigma. And then the pictures that flashed, I saw myself training to teach for our church. In that condition, realizing there’s nobody there that’s going to believe this is God. No one. And the next scene, I’m standing in front of my favorite restaurant in town in that condition. I could see myself realizing I’m going to be a mockery to the entire city. And I could tell what the Lord was after is, He was reminding me, I said, at any cost. And what I was coming to realize is that if I say yes to this, I may be in bed the rest of my life. I can’t function. I can’t do life if I say yes. I’m giving up my right to dignity. I’m giving up my right to function as a normal human being. And I lay there for probably I believe for 20 minutes with tears going down the sides of my face. I said, “I’ll take it if I get more of you. You can do anything you want with me, any way you want me, anything you want, I don’t care. I’ll take the exchange if I get more of you.”

SID: So you’re processing obviously. You go back to bed. The next night, what happens?

BILL: Same thing.

SID: Same thing.

BILL: Same thing three nights in a row.

SID: After this encounter…

BILL: Yes.

SID: What was God expecting from you?

BILL: I, as simple as it is, He didn’t want me to be concerned about how I looked to somebody else. He really wanted me to fear God and not man. And the strange thing is, is there’s not one of my closest friends that would have said I fear man. But the Lord could see something, it was still there that had not been dealt with. And he seemed to be, entrusted with me knowing a breakthrough, to minister in any measure of revival. You can’t be controlled or influenced by the fear of man. It will cripple you. And I feel that the Lord is really wanting me to set all of us free. And for me, it just needed to be something dramatic where I could love people, but not fear them, where I could serve people, but not be controlled them. And I think it’s essential for what God is wanting to do on the earth. He’s wanting to raise up a generation that can fear God only and love not the life to the death.

SID: I see this aspect about you, but I see another aspect. I see a man that has compassion for people that are suffering.

BILL: Yes.

SID: Where did this come from, this compassion? Jesus had this compassion.

BILL: I would think it’s from him. It’s just you get close and you feel his heart. You know, you feel his heart for anything. You feel his pleasure. I sometimes, honestly, I’ll do an experiment. I’ll put my hand on somebody’s shoulder just to affectionately touch them. But what I’m really doing is I can sense the pleasure of the Lord for that person. And when you sense the pleasure of God for people, it’s so hard to criticize them. It’s so hard to think evil of them or, you know, all you want to do is to sow into their best, to call them into their destiny. When you discover that pleasure of the Lord for people, I think it’s closely connected to this compassion thing that Jesus was moved by compassion. Compassion always brings a miracle. Sympathy just brings comfort in a problem.

SID: You told me that sometimes before you’ll enter a store, you’ll just be still. Explain what you’ll do before you go into a retail store or someone’s home, or something like that.

BILL: Yeah. Well sometimes I realize, for example, I’m going into a store. It’s kind of the people who own it are involved in all different kinds of strange things. So I’ll pause for a moment on the outside, not to bind, not to loose, not to engage in any kind of warfare. I’m just turning my attention towards the Holy Spirit, my affection towards Him. And as soon as I recognize His presence resting upon me, then I go in the store. And I don’t have to say anything. Things, there’s an atmosphere shift in the building when He rests upon you. My whole deal is the Holy Spirit is in every believer, but He doesn’t always rest upon every believer. And that’s what I think are challenges. Learn to be a person that hosts Him in the sense that He rests upon us, because He’s in me for my sake, but He comes upon me for yours. He comes upon me for the sake of people around me.

SID: So correct me if I’m wrong. But what I’m hearing you say is you come to your senses, my terminology. You come to your senses. You begin to tell God how grateful you are for all He’s done in your life. You begin to just have your heart touch His. Then when you walk into a retail establishment, He’s in the whole atmosphere around you. You must change the atmosphere in some stores.

BILL: Well I hope so. We’re supposed to.

SID: Tell me about the time you went to a gas station.

BILL: I was just, this was back when we had to stand in line at a particular station to pay. You couldn’t pay at the pump. And I walked into the gas station and the two people in front of me started, they were laughing, just uncontrollably. And I thought maybe they knew each other. I thought maybe one of them had told a joke to the other one, or something, you know. And finally, one of them broke loose, ran out of the store, pushed through the glass doors, turned around and just stared at me from the other side of the glass. I, you know, I don’t know what happened. But righteousness, peace and joy, the joy part became manifest there and they didn’t even know what they got a taste of. But they really did get a taste of the liberating presence of the joy of God.

SID: I have to tell you something funny. My uncle I gave a video to, and he’s no longer here right now. But, and the video was a Rodney Howard Brown video, and people had that same joy that Bill is talking about right now. But they, but Rodney wasn’t doing anything funny. And he called me on the phone and he said, “These people are crazy. This guy is not funny. I’m funnier than him, but he’s getting more laughs than I’m getting.” We’ll be right back.

Our Guest Tommy Reid

Tommy Reid

Sid: This is Sid Roth with Tommy Reid. Tommy I believe has lived what he is teaching. His greatest desire is to have you do greater than him because he learned as a child that there is a dream from God for every human. And when you achieve knowing that dream and implementing that dream you have achieved your destiny. And his greatest desire is for you to achieve your destiny. Tommy let’s start with the first Jew, Abraham, what is God showing you?

Tommy: Well when I look at the life of Abraham I’ve got a lot of favorite Bible characters but he is my faith father so I love to start where he started. First of all Abraham did not come from what we know as a Jewish home or from a Christian home. He was a son of a idol maker but God encountered him. He had this encounter with God and God told him a number of things. He told him he would give him a child of the family and Bashan but he couldn’t have children. And so as he had this vision from God or this voice of God saying “This is who you are and this is what you’re going to do and you’re going to be a great nation.” One day he believed it and he did two things with that dream and this is the way that Abraham teaches us how to hear God’s voice. Number one he went to what I call the cathedral of God he went out in the open air where there’s nothing between he and God. It was the open heavens he could see the stars, he could feel the breeze he was in this again what I call the cathedral. And as he was there and hearing God’s voice and remembering God’s voice he did 2 things. First of all he reached down and he felt the sand. And he felt the sand going through his hands and he said “I see my children, there’s thousands of them, millions of them. I see my children.” Then he looked at the stars and he began to count them and he was enough of an astronomer know that there was more stars than he could count; “My children go beyond the numbers that I can count.” So the first take we…the first place he takes is dream, he takes it to the open air. I love to take my dreams what God says to me out of the open air. If you want to hear God’s voice get where there’s nothing between you and God. If it’s zero degrees take a walk and look at the stars it’s a wonderful place to hear God’s voice. Number 2 God says to him “Build me an altar.” The second place to hear God’s voice is in the intimacy of the altar. Its here we make sacrifice, it’s here we listen, it’s hear we hear the still small voice of God. And so my exhortation to anyone that wants to hear God’s voice is 2 places to hear God’s voice to hear the best. One is in the open air; the other is in the intimacy of your communication with God where there’s intimacy between you and God. And you know Sid hearing God’s voice ought to be so natural, we ought to be able to hear it as we drive our cars. I personally for 50 years I’ve always driven a convertible because I love to put the top down, I can hear God’s voice. It’s where there’s nothing between me and God. One story I close with I was a good friend of Robert Schuler’s and we had spent Wanda and I had spent a vacation with he and Arvella and 6 other couples at The Balls within the State on Maui. And one day we went out for a walk with him through the woods. You know we built a crystal cathedral nothing between you and God. And as you look at the crystal cathedral we were thinking about that. And so we went out for a walk in the woods and in the back of the estate old wooden platform. At the end of the platform was this hand hewn pulpit. He raised his hands and said “This is the greatest cathedral in the world there is nothing between me and God.” And so part of my advise is that your going to hear God find a place a place of intimacy and a place of expanse where you believe that God is going to speak to you. Does that make any sense to you Sid?

Sid: Well the key that I’m hearing you say is have nothing separate… go out into nature and believe that God’s going to speak.

Tommy: Yeah and you don’t commune with nature you commune with the God that made nature. There’s nothing…I’ve got to picture myself and see myself as being able to see God’s face to face and one to one. That’s the God that heals Tommy Reid when I was a boy. That’s the God that called me when I was a cripple; that’s the God that called me when I was a stutter and couldn’t speak. This God that I’ve known from my mother’s knee is the God that’s there’s nothing between me and this God.

Sid: Well you believe because scripture says that God wrote the purposes and the destiny of our life before the foundation of the world. That’s true for every one that’s listening.

Tommy: Everyone that\s listening? Yeah, I’ll be glad to. Every single person on the other side of this microphone even if you never heard God’s voice even though you’re listening today and it kind of caught you by surprise and your out there and you say “I never heard God I didn’t know if there is a God.” Listen because He’s speaking, He’s speaking in a language of dreams, He’s speaking in a language of visions and I guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that if you’ll listen you’ll hear His voice.

Sid: Tell me about in your new book “How to Live Out of a Dream,” and especially the workbook portion to help you identify your dreams and bring them to past. Why did you set it up this way?

Tommy: I set it up this way because I want people to work their way through dreams. For instance I say that first I remember the first workbook “Praise” I ask the question “What dreams did you have when you were 7 or 8 years of age what did you dream about?” Did you dream about being a fireman maybe so but maybe that dream really meant you were supposed to rescue people. Maybe it means that you’re supposed to be a preacher and give altar calls. Maybe you’re supposed to be a person that witnessed to your Jewish neighbor who needs Christ, who needs to accept Him as Messiah. And maybe that’s what dream meant. Think about your dreams and write it down. And then I say the next question is “What did you do with it” did you follow it, did you throw it away or did you listen to it?” And so the questions are kind of like that and we go from truth to truth. First question is “When was your dream written by God, when you were born, when God created the world or before the foundation of the world?” And so we go through the chapters of the book and ask questions.

Sid: Now you talk a lot and I sure wish I would have understood this I wish everyone would understand; I want you to teach just a few minutes on the battle between the world around us and the world inside of us.

Tommy: I was first going to call my book “The Conflict” because that’s one of the great battles that we fight between we fight inside of us. I saw this big church inside of me but I looked up and it was a little church. Think of the dream that Henry Ford had, he had a vision of putting America on wheels. And yet there were no roads, there were no gas stations, there was no place to even drive the cars. And even if you had them and could sell them the people couldn’t afford to buy them. So how are you going to make a car that multitudes could buy. But that dream concord the dream around him. And that’s true with everybody no matter who the great man is. The dream inside of you, the dream of Henry Kaiser to build the Liberty and Victory ships. It took him what was it a year and 4 months to build a ship, but he shortened the time one time to 4 days to build a 450’ ship because it was a dream inside of him greater than the world around him. But there was a conflict; well my conflict was trying to build a church in Buffalo and wasn’t succeeding. I got an invitation to pastor a big church in Hawaii. When I was working with Dr. Cho we got an offer to co-pastor the great full-gospel church in Soul with him. But yet there was another church inside of me so I had to say no to one to say yes to the other.

Sid: Yea, after saying no to these wonderful opportunities things that people… it’s like unreal the opportunities that were presented to you Tommy. You finally God gave you a vision to build churches in Buffalo and you go there and for 7 years nothing is happening. Between you and me did you think that you really had missed God?

Tommy: Oh yeah, I think there’s times I think that all of us have doubts but not that overwhelming. I still knew it was inside of me; I still saw that church even though I became discouraged I knew that God was going to do it beyond a shadow of a doubt there was something inside of me. There was times of doubt yes. But there would also be times when I would have to move back into the world inside of me and say “God I still believe it.” But there was a time when God really spoke to me. There was a book I wrote a number of years ago with 3 visions in it. And one of the visions that I had I think was a stumbling block to building the church. Was I began to pray a prayer inside of me, the prayer inside of me was “God show me the world as You see it.” Now I thought I knew how God saw the world. I got that from all of the sermon’s I heard that God hates the world and he’s going to destroy it and He’s going to send all of the judgment upon it. That’s who I thought God was, that’s how I thought God thought about the world. And I prayed this prayer “God show me the world as you see it.” And one day I was driving my car and I don’t know who drove the car for the next 2 minutes it may have been a few seconds but I had this vision as I was pulling the car up onto the throughway and I was way above the world. Now remember the prayers coming out of me is “Lord show me the world as you see it.” And all of a sudden I took this, I had this kind of a bird’s eye view of the world and I saw the places I’d been in Korea, the Philippians the cities that I’d been in. And all of a sudden I saw the hands of Jesus nailed scarred and they came toward the world and I thought I saw the world as He saw it so I thought they were going to destroy the world. Instead they gently caressed the world and Jesus opened the world and inside I saw a broken heart. And Jesus said to me “Tommy, that’s the way I see the world and if you’ll see it that way I’ll give you a great church.” And my whole world changed, my message was different, my love for the Jew, my for the… you know I thought as some mistaken Christians have thought that that God wanted to judge the Jew because they had been part of the crucifixion. I began to realize that God loved them with an underwhelming love because He saw them with a broken heart. Everything about how Jesus saw the world changed and with that the church grew from 150 people to 800 in one week.

Sid: In one week! Well you make an amazing statement I’m going to quote you. “The world inside you is the seed you must plant in the world around you.”

Our Guest Craig Hill

craig hill

Sid: There are certain things that many believers have if not most believers have the Bible calls them little foxes bondages, compulsive habits, shame based thinking that stop you from being free, therefore stop the glory from God from being all God wants for you and stop you from fulfilling your destiny. Have you said “You know I think there is something stopping me but I’ve prayed, I’ve fasted I’ve read the Bible I’ve prayed in tongues, I’ve mediated on scripture, I’ve done all of these principals but there is something gnawing at me I’m really not that free I have a compulsion to watch TV, I have a compulsion to gossip, I have a compulsion to tell little white lies or to stretch the truth, I have a compulsion to smoke, I have a compulsion for drugs, I have a compulsion for sexual thoughts.” Where is this coming from, what really drives this compulsion? If you understood the source and then understood how Jesus has broken this for you you could be free and accomplish your destiny and accomplish that intimacy with God that you want it’s so deep in your heart. That’s why I’ve asked my friend Craig Hill to teach us. He’s Founder of Family Foundations International. We’re offering his book “Freedom from Compulsion Habits, Bondage Broken” and “Identifying Shame” a 3 audio cassette teaching that explains what’s behind these compulsive problems the two really go together. So Craig how did you get a revelation on what really drives compulsion?

Craig: You know Sid years ago I was experiencing the same type of frustration and I shouldn’t say “Years ago” because I think that a lot of us repeat this experience periodically where we find things in our lives that simply don’t work; and we’re frustrated because as you say we pray and we seek God, we read scripture, we do everything we know to do and it just doesn’t seem to change. But I got a revelation several years ago from Hebrews chapter 4 verse 10 that says “Therefore there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God for the one that has entered into His rest (That is God’s rest) has himself also rested from his works as God did from his.” And what I suddenly saw is that in these compulsions these types of things like overeating or fingernail biting, things that were just real simple things that were going on in my own life that there was a deception that I wasn’t aware of and the deception was my flesh was very busy working trying to bring a false comfort to an area of my soul that was not yet peace. And what I began to see was this that any time the soul is not at peace the flesh gets real busy working to try to do something to bring a false comfort, a false peace to that area where the soul is out of peace.

Sid: And as you explained we don’t know where soul isn’t at peace, the only way we know is by the smoke that shows that our soul isn’t at peace. And the smoke is the overeating, the drinking, the compulsive habits, the watching TV, the talking so much etcetera.

Craig: Exactly, years ago when I saw this I did have a really funny experience on a Saturday one day. It was one of those days when it was a real cloudy rainy outside, I was bored I had a thousand things to do and I really didn’t want to do any of them. And I thought well I’ll just sit down and watch TV for a little while. And I was sitting there and watching TV and all of a sudden a thought came into my mind “You need potato chips” and I thought “Yes, potato chips.” So I went and got a big bag of potato chips and I ate a whole bunch of them.

Sid: You’re making me hungry Craig. (Laughing)

Craig: Plus came “You need Pepsi” so I went and got a big bottle of Pepsi and I was drinking that and that made me feel better. And here just a little while later came another thought, “You need Pizza.” And I thought “Yes, Pizza that’s what I need.” And I was on my way to get the Pizza and the Holy Spirit stopped me He said “What are you doing?” I said “I’m eating.” And He said “Why?” I said “Because I’m hungry.” And then I heard this He said “Son, you’re not hungry you’re deceived because you just had lunch a short time ago and so you don’t have a nutritional need you’re not eating food of nutritional value you’re eating because something deep on the inside is out of peace and you’re using food to try to comfort that.” And then the Lord said a thing that I’ll never forget He said “Son in reality you’re in idolatry.”

Sid: Ooh!

Craig: And I thought “Idolatry, that’s sounded sort of serious I thought…

Sid: Because you wanted some Pepsi and potato chips.

Craig: Exactly and I thought you killed people for that in the Old Testament that’s sort of serious, “What do You mean idolatry any way I haven’t been bowing down worshiping little stone figures recently, what do You mean?” The Lord said this to me and I’ll never forget it He said “Whatever you look to as a source of life and comfort and peace that is god to you and today you have decided that I AM not your God you have shut Me out of your life and you’ve decided that food will be your god today.”

Sid: You know that is so profound that would you please repeat that and Mispochah listen clearly to what Craig is saying.

Craig: Well the Lord just said to me “You’re in idolatry and He said “Anything that you look to as a source of life, a source of peace, a source of comfort is God to you.” And the Lord said “Son I Am Jehovah Shalom, I Am God your peace, I Am the Prince of Peace, I want to come and be your peace today but Son today you have shut Me out of your life and instead you’re looking to food and you’re drawing comfort and life from food and so today you’ve decided food is your god and you’ve got Me shut out of your life.” And when the Lord said that to me I began to weep, I said “God that’s the last thing I’d ever want to do, I love You Lord, I want to serve You, I want my whole life to be given over to You, I don’t want to be looking to something else as God.” And the Lord said “That’s exactly what you’re doing you’re allowing your flesh to rise up and to offer to you a false peace, a false comfort instead of looking to Me; and you don’t have a need for food you just got a great big gaping emotional hold on the inside and you’re trying to fill it up with food instead of coming to Me and allowing Me to fill that, allowing Me to love you, allowing Me to be your life.” And you know underneath that soul being out of peace there’s something that drives that, you know what cause the soul to be out of peace? Well, you know the Lord showed me from 1st John chapter 4 verse 18 where it says “Perfect love casts out fear, for fear hath torment.” And when I read that you know there’s torment sound like something a little bit not peaceful?

Sid: Of course.

Craig: And you know what I discovered is that beneath the soul being out of peace there is always a fear there, there’s an intense deep fear that has been put there that is really like fuel that burns whenever that fear gets simulated and it’s not an intellectual level it’s on an emotional. Fear is really one of two areas it’s really “I’m not loved and I have no value or it’s a deep fear my needs are not going to be met.”

Sid: And many times we’re not even aware of what you just said that’s so buried.

Craig: No, we don’t know the fear is there you know if you take these steps backward…

Sid: Someone would deny if you confront them because you’re dealing with fear.

Craig: That’s right but again the proof’s in the pudding if it’s not there then why are you doing this, why are you struggling with overeating, why are you struggling with anger, why are you struggling with impure thoughts? Again when I found Sid for example with pornography so many men struggle and battle with impure thoughts and pornography but it has nothing to do with sex it simply has to do with something deep on the inside where the soul is out of peace. The reason the soul is out of peace is there is a deep tormenting fear on the inside, “Fear hath torment.” And if we get down to the bottom line how do you get rid of fear well again 1st John 4:18 tells us “Perfect love casts out fear.” So when obviously when I see an external going on of impure thought or somebody struggling with pornography I know that that person’s soul is out of peace. And I know the reason that soul is out of peace is because there’s some kind of fear tormenting on an emotional level and I know that the reason that fear is there because sometime and somewhere in that persons life something’s happen to them that created an inability to receive love in that particular area. The bottom line the way that we’re going to get rid of that we know that perfect love casts out fear. So when I get to the root of that and discover where did that… where is the fuel, where is the fire the fuel. The bottom line is a lack of love, a lack of the love of the Father. So when I have by experience have not received either by revelation or by experience the love of the Father I will by default have an area where fear is functioning and that fear will torment my soul, push it out of peace. And when the soul is out of peace my flesh will do something externally to bring a comfort. And if all we do is try to stop the overeating, stop the anger, stop the lust, stop the fingernail biting, stop whatever the external is all we’re doing is trying to manage that external like managing smoke leaving the fire raging burning on the inside and the fuel is still in tack and Jesus didn’t die for…

Sid: Let’s talk on tomorrow’s broadcast of what to do about the problem when you identify them. But what happened with your overeating medication through the food to take care of that soul that was not in peace?

Craig: When I got that revelation of idolatry it just broke my heart Sid and I began to weep before the Lord and I said “Lord what do you want what do You want me to do?” And He said “I want you to run to Me, come to Me instead of the food.” And so I did, I repented and renounced I was looking to food as a comfort, I came to the Lord and I said “Lord Jesus where is this coming from?” And the Lord began to show me some pain on the inside and feeling of worthlessness and of being of no value. And He said “I want you to just ask Me a simple question.” I said “Lord, what’s the question?” He said “And the question is who am I?” And I said “Lord who am I?” And the amazing thing happened I began to experience His love, He began to speak to me the truth of who I am and deep on the inside that began to fill something on an emotional level on the inside. And as that filling came it drove out the fear and as the fear left the soul came back into peace.

Sid: Whoa, we’re out of time…

Our Guest George Otis, Jr.

George Otis

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is George Otis, Jr. the leader of an organization called “Centennial Group” that does investigative reporting of transformations of cities or states or countries. They’re located in Lynwood, Washington. And many of you perhaps have seen his city of transformations; if you have not he has 4 cities that people have prayed for and literally the entire cities have changed. I’ll tell you George it can’t get much worse than the city we were talking about yesterday. Cali, Columbia the drug capitol of the world, it was loaded with New Age occult, and there was one weekend when 25,000 Christians gathered to pray. I don’t think any of us can comprehend… just as we’re talking about a city being transformed with the power of God this city had been transformed to be under the thumb, if you will, of demonic powers. I mean they were having like 15 murders a day so these 25,000 Christians show up and they pray and what happened?

George: Well the marvelous thing was that within literally a matter of hours the headlines of the city newspaper blazoned “No Homicides.” Now think about that this is the city newspaper that’s how rare the event was that it would become the city newspapers headlines.

Sid: Hm.

George: Nobody was murdered over a weekend this was huge news in the city of Cali one of the most violent places on the face of the earth. Those 25,000 people that saw that headline in the newspaper began to reflect back on what they had just been talking to God about a few hours earlier. They made a connection somebody was listening to us somebody had inclined their ear unto our desperate petition and answered our prayers. And so they said “Well, let’s do this again.” And 90 days later they met again in the municipal auditorium about 25,000 people, and this time they began to talk to God about corruption, political corruption which had become an acid a corrosive with in this society and in their lives and in their emotions. Within a matter of days 900 police officers were fired on corruption charges along with multiple other civil servants.

Sid: But wait a second with the control that the organized crime had in that city, as you pointed out yesterday, how in the world could they do that?

George: There was tremendous pressure brought by federal authorities that were now beginning to intrude upon the city and this had never happened before…

Sid: They probably wouldn’t have been able to do it if it wasn’t for the prayer.

George: And once again, no I’m convinced that’s true. And the people made a connection and they said “My goodness somebody is listening to us.” So they stuck their necks out and decided to lease the largest public venue in the city which is the Pasqual Guiro Soccer Stadium seats about 60,000 people. Ninety days later they filled it to capacity and now this time they began very boldly to call out upon the Name of the Lord and ask Him to release them from the icy death grip of the drug lords. And again within a very short span of time the entire city was closed off by federal authorities, all the roads were barricaded, the airport was closed. The air space over the city began to buzz with helicopters. The doors slid open on the sides of the helicopters ropes dangled down and 1000’s of Special Forces troops landed on the streets of the city under orders from the federal government to find and arrest the drug lords. And over the coming weeks all of those drug lords were either arrested or were killed. And I have actually walked through the compounds of these drug lords and I can tell you they’re ghost towns. They’re completely empty now…

Sid: For those that were not listening yesterday would you describe what they looked like at their height.

George: Their cities, their small cities behind huge 15 to 25 foot concrete walls with the most sophisticated surveillance you can image. Fleets of black Mercedes cars, helipads, airstrips literal shopping malls not stores but malls inside these compounds, restaurants, they have sports teams that they owned that will come in and play. They’ve got their own militias. It is absolutely beyond comprehension and many of these compounds these assets have been turned over now to the churches. There’s one tall building in the city of Cali where this garish penthouse is not the headquarters of Christians television city. (Laughing) Because the guy who owned it got saved while he was in prison and turned over the assets to the church. Increasingly the body of Christ has begun to become a force to be reckoned with replacing the power of the drug cartels to the extent that today as you and I speak the body of Christ in the city of Cali, Columbia is doing more in the public health sector and the public education than the municipal government is doing.

Sid: My goodness the democrats and republicans ought to go to Cali rather than what they’re doing and find out how to change a city, let’s change a country.

George: Yeah.

Sid: Can you imagine if we had all of our senate and have all of our congress go out there and get hit with the power of God what would happen in America?

George: Well one of the exciting things Sid is that’s happening now is the increasingly around the world we’re getting phone calls and emails of heads of state, from governors, from police chiefs, from all kinds of top business leaders who have seen the transformations videos and have called us to travel to their nations to meet with political and business leaders saying “Tell us how can this happen?” This last year I’ve been in a number of countries around the world meeting with presidents and with prime ministers talking to them about how God intends that the church and the state come together under His name and under His banner to solve the problems that vex all of our cities and nations today. And we’re now beginning to see the firstfruits of people obeying God in the nation of Uganda and more recently in the nation of Fiji, and also in the Canadian Arctic. We’re seeing civil governments working hand in hand with men and women of God to see their societies absolutely turned around and transformed.

Sid: Now when I think of Uganda I think of Idi Amin, and I think of just a tremendous murderer and the last thing that I would think of is that being a godly nation. Tell me what happened there.

George: Well you know once again you had a disruption to their society that brought the church out of it funk and out of its disunity and out of its game playing into really serious petitioning of the Lord of Hosts. Many of the church people were chased out of their churches into the jungles and into the swamps where they learned how to really pray; how to really call upon God there. There was no television, there was no bowling, there was no football going on, there weren’t even fun church meetings, there weren’t home cell groups there was nothing. It was where faith… the rubber meets the road. During those years they learned how to pray and how to call upon the name of the Lord. And the Lord came down in a mighty way and removed not only Idi Amin, but his successor who was just as bloody a man by the name of Milton Obote. And they were chased out by the current president a man by the name of Yoweri Museveni whose wife is as fervent and as passionate a Christian as you’ll find anywhere walking this earth. And that government is now stocked with one fervent man and woman of God after another. They even formed a new department, a cabinet level post in Uganda called The Ministry of Ethics and Integrity.

Sid: Hm.

George: And the woman who heads up that ministry is featured on our 2nd transformations video.   And she stood up in front of all of the nations she said “Here I am. I am the Moses of Uganda appointed by His hand to lead the nation away from immoral and unethical conduct into the right direction.” And she showed me this road map this manifesto that they developed to see the nation led away from corruption. And they have appointed judges who’ve begun to do their work to bring down corruption to a manageable level. And the Ugandan economy is now the third fastest growing economy of all of Africa. They have lifted the AIDS and HIV epidemic; the only nation in Sub-Saharan in Africa today where the rate of HIV has plummeted. The church has taken it upon themselves to adopt all of the orphan children of parents who have died from AIDS. And now abstinence and faithfulness in marriage has played a huge role in overcoming the spread of AIDS in this country. And also, many people who had contracted full blown AIDS and had a death sentence on their lives God graciously has come and healed these people. We interviewed scores of these people Sid and literally 1000’s of people dying of AIDS have been healed by the gracious hand of God in the nation of Uganda. It is a marvelous thing of what God is doing in this country today. And this is one example…

Sid: I’m wondering why the world doesn’t know about it. Well one reason is that that they haven’t gotten a hold of your videos. We have the first video called “Transformations” which has 4 Communities and this is a reward winning documentary and it shows exactly what George is talking about.

Our Guest Hal Lindsey

Hal Lindsey

Sid: My guest by way of telephone at his home in the suburb of Los Angeles California Hal Lindsey. Now Hal if I was to ask you why you sincerely believe we’re in the last generation, we’re in the last days what would your answer be?

Hal: Well, it’s a combination of many things that have been fulfilled like the most important and key sign against all odds the people of Israel have returned to their ancient homeland and become a nation again. That started the fast track for all prophecies that fit together. Then there’s the rise of the United States of Europe which I said would take place to become a revived Roman Empire. The rise of power in Asia with China, India, Pakistan, North Korea all of them nuclear armed. The fact that there are a number of general signs that Jesus said would increase toward the time in concert together toward the time of His return. And He said that they would increase like birth pains they would grow in frequency and intensity. And I’m talking about the fact that He said that there would be wars and rumors of wars. That’s His way of saying hot wars and cold wars, that nation would rise against nation, ethnic group would rise against ethnic group. He said that earthquakes, great earthquakes would increase and certainly we’ve seen a great acceleration of activity in that. He said that there would be famines and we now live in what is called the age of famines there’s always a major famine going on somewhere in the world at all times. He said there would be great plaques and I know that we thought that our old embassies of diseases was finally broken when antibiotics came out. But now there are virulent strains of these that have developed immunity to even our most advanced antibiotics. And WHO World Health Organization says we are always on the brink of some worldwide plague. And now add to that biological warfare. Jesus said also that there would be a change in global weather patterns. And the book of Revelation talks about killer heat waves. You know in Europe just this last summer they’re now tabulating that more than 20,000 people died from the intense heat that hit Europe for the month of August. So these are the few of the things that Jesus said would increase in frequency and intensity in concert with each other towards the time when He would return.

Sid: Now tell me something about because you deal with this in your video a country that we know is a player in the end times but we don’t think in terms of that right now China.

Hal: China is I believe the sleeping giant that has been awakened. Revelation chapter 16 speaks about a great movement from Asia that would come into the war that starts in the Middle East when a Russian led Muslim evasion hits Israel. It says that “The kings of the east shall come and cross the ancient boundary between east and west the Euphrates River.” That they would come into battle with and then have to connect that with Revelation chapter 9 which talks about the number. John says “I heard the number 200 million soldiers that come from Asia to this battle. And it says that “God has appointed them to kill a 1/3 of the population of the earth with fire, smoke and brimstone.” Well, I think that that was a lst Century description of the use of nuclear weapons. Smoke being fallout…

Sid: I have to ask you a question. On an earlier broadcast you talked about the prophets like they wrote say the take the book of Revelation they literally saw this happening. When you talk about this experience or Revelation 9 A third of the world’s population being killed I see you really getting choked up on this video, are you almost seeing this?

Hal: Yes, I really you know when I was studying and praying on this I got a vision of how many people this is. Now let’s say that this happens in the near future we now have over 6 billion people on earth. The book of Revelation says that the first stage of war would kill a forth of the population so that have to mean that 1.5 billion people would die in a short period of time. And then 1/3 of that remaining would be another 1.5 billion and so within a very short space of time over 3 billion people will be killed.

Sid: You know unfortunately this generation is almost numbed when they hear large number of murders because I read a static recently when people watch television I mean they see so many murders we’re numb to things like this.

Hal: Yes, it’s just absolutely awesome and I believe that we have become numb to the normality of suffering that is about us but the world has never known anything like what is about predicted coming very soon.

Sid: What advice would you give a young family listening to us right now hearing what we’ve been talking about all of this week, seeing that it’s going to be in our lifetime? I mean where do you put your money, you put your money in the stock market in the United States? Do you I mean there’s really no place you’re going to be able to put your money if the dollar loses all of its value which is where we’re headed towards. What advice do you give a young Christian family that’s just starting and their hearing all of these things?

Hal: I know it’s terrifying but the good news is that if we learn to put our faith in the promises of God; we learn to crack the faith barrier and we learn to say God’s promises as more real than what we see with our eyes and hear with our ears. Then God will give us an inner peace and direction as to how to take care of our family and to give us peace and opportunity to bring 100’s to Christ even in the midst of this turmoil. But the really good news is the promises Jesus made Himself that when the worst of this breaks out we won’t be here he’s going to snatch out every living believer before all of this breaks out into its worst form.

Sid: On the other hand I think that even not the worst that it’s going to be a horrible time to be here without Jesus.

Hal: Oh man, I mean if someone is trying to make it without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ it’s just not going to happen. I mean the most important investment anyone could do is come to the realization that God so loved us that He step out of eternity into time in the person of Jesus the Messiah. And He took upon Himself every sin that we’ll ever commit and He bore His own judgment toward that sin in His own body. And He purchased a pardon for everyone when He did this but we have to claim it, we have to receive it. So the most important issue before everyone today is to receive the gift of pardon, that Jesus the Messiah purchased for them and then he can know that no matter what happens Christ will never leave us or forsake us. And He will guide us through and protect us even in the worst of times.

Sid: And even for believers that are listening to us right now there’s never been a time in history of about what ready to face and if there is known sin in your life I urge you to repent, turn from the sin, turn to God for the power to get free from this sin. Because listen sin blocks intimacy with God. And the Bible says “My sheep hear my voice.” Now if you will repent of those known sins and get right with God I tell you you’re going to hear His voice. And the word of God says “No weapon formed against you shall prosper.” I believe that you will be sitting with armies running around you with guns in the worst of times and you’ll be walking in perfect peace. I believe that there is coming such an outpouring of God’s protective canopy over believers that are sold out and that’s the key “Sold out.” I use an introduction “Red Hot” for Jesus because the Bible says “I’d rather you’d be hot or cold but if you’re lukewarm I’d vomit you out of my mouth.” And that’s Hal what I understand it says in the Greek is that true?

Hal: That’s correct; absolutely it says that if we’re lukewarm He’ll spew us out of His mouth.” And that’s what I do not want to be, I want to be in fellowship with the Lord and really seeking to walk with Him every day. And your right sin does break the fellowship.

Sid: Hal, we’re out of time thank you for being my guest.