Its Supernatural

Our Guest Dodie Osteen

SID: Dodie, your husband was Southern Baptist. You didn’t believe in healing and then a tragedy hit your family. Your baby daughter Lisa had, in birth, a problem that resulted in a condition much like the polio that you had. So if you don’t have any paradigm for healing, what did you do about it?

DODIE: Well that’s just about the time that John decided that he was going to receive God, that he knew that Jesus went about doing miracles and healings, not just when he was here on Earth. So he took a train to a meeting where he was going to preach in Atlanta or some place and so he would have time to seek God. And he came back, and he told me, he said, “Dodie, I know that things are different than what we’ve believed. But at that time I didn’t know a thing in the world about healing and he didn’t either because he wasn’t taught it in seminary. So he just said, that was just a little while before Lisa was born. And so when we got this news he said, “We’re just going to pray for her and believe that God will heal her.” I didn’t know what I was doing, but he said, “I’m going to pray a prayer then I want you and Paul,” we had two children at that time, “I want you to just look at her and say thank you Jesus for healing her.” So that’s what we did. I didn’t know what I was doing, but I said, “Thank you Jesus for healing her.”

SID: And what happened to this horrible condition she had?

DODIE: Well she was so listless and all. She couldn’t move. She couldn’t take a bottle. It took 45 minutes to get a half an ounce down her. And so she began to improve. She began to be able to have more strength and then she began to sit alone. And the doctor had told her she may be in a wheelchair. But then she started improving and the doctor said this is a real miracle. So now Lisa is a grown woman with three children, two of them in college.

SID: I’m glad that you and John prayed for her.

DODIE: I’m so glad. Listen, we wouldn’t have had a little healed girl preaching the Gospel now if we hadn’t known about healing.

SID: You did something right at home, you and John. All of your children are in ministry.

DODIE: I know. I’m so proud of them. You don’t know how proud I am of them.

SID: You go to the hospital for a day and you end up staying there 20 days. But then John is told you only have a few weeks to live.

DODIE: A few weeks to live.

SID: What did he say when he heard that?

DODIE: You can’t believe, I mean, the feeling, it was right at Christmas time. It was December the 10th that I got that news after they had done every test under the sun. I was supposed to just stay three or four days, but they couldn’t find out what it was. They thought at first it was an abscess, a liver abscess. But then a tumor the size of an orange and two small ones like almonds. So John just said to her, “Well Doctor, we’re going to believe for a miracle.” The doctor said, “You’re going to have to have a miracle, Pastor.” So we went home that day on the 5:00 train.

SID: Did they just release you?

DODIE: They released me. John said, “I don’t want to keep her here anymore. I want to take her home and pray over it and get the church to pray over her.” And so we did in the 5:00 traffic. I so I looked terrible. I was jaundice. My skin was wrinkled, and of course now it’s from age, the wrinkles. And my skin was jaundice. My eyes were jaundice. And we went home and I didn’t go to bed because I thought I don’t want to look like I’m sick. I just will stay up, my mother and dad were there, until bedtime. And so the next morning we woke up. We laid at the foot of our bed and John prayed a prayer and commanded the cancer to leave me. Like Jesus commanded the fig tree to wither and die, he said “Cancer, you leave my wife. Don’t you ever come back again, in Jesus’ name.” These words stuck with  me, Sid. “I need her, Jesus. The church needs her. The children need her. Her mother and daddy need her, and you need her, Jesus.” I never will forget that. As far as I was concerned, on December 11th, I believe I received healing of cancer.

SID: But wait, you weren’t healed.

DODIE: I wasn’t healed.

SID: This went on for several years. So why did you believe it started at that moment?

DODIE: I had to have a starting point otherwise I would have lost it.

SID: Did you believe that you were healed?

DODIE: I believed when my husband prayed he had commanded power. I had faith in John Osteen. I had faith in God and his belief in God.

SID: She learned how to stand on the Word of God, but it was beyond that. You literally did that.

DODIE: I did. I got my little Bible and I stood on it. My feet aren’t very big because of polio, so they fit on my little Bible. And I said, “Jesus, I’m standing on your Word. I don’t know anything else to do.” I stood on the Word of God and I have been ever since.

SID: Now God spoke to you because you knew, she knew Oral Roberts, T.L. Osborn, all the great healing evangelists, and John Osteen her husband, and they all could pray for her.

DODIE: They did.

SID: But then God said to you, tell me what God said.

DODIE: God spoke to me one night and he said, “You’ve had Brother Roberts pray, you had Brother Osborn pray, Brother Hagin,” he said, “but it’s up to you and me. It’s between you and me.” So I realized I’d better get with it.

SID: Tell me some of the things you did. Tell me about the pictures.

DODIE: I put pictures up of me, of John and I at our wedding and then I put a picture up of me when I was 38, I think.

SID: Why did you do that?

DODIE: Just to remind me of how I was healthy and strong, and that I would be that way again someday.

SID: And you know something else that impressed me?

DODIE: What?

SID: You refused to talk about the suffering, the pain, that you’re feeling sick and tired. Why would you do that?

DODIE: Because I didn’t want to bring, we’re snared with the words of our mouth and I didn’t want to be snared. I wanted Jesus to hear good things coming out. So when the children would say, “Mother, how are you today,” I would say, “I’m blessed. I’m so blessed.” And we lived where we had a long driveway out in Humble at that time, and I would take mail out or checked on the mail, bring it back, and I would say, “I trust Jesus to heal me,” all the way up to the mailbox. I just did it. Now I still, when I see a cemetery, “No, devil, you will not take me. You’ve [?] to steal!” I said it loud, too. There’s people with me. I don’t care. Just let them know I’m a fanatic. I’m alive.

SID: Now you’re a fanatic.

DODIE: I’m a fanatic.

SID: About saying God’s Word out loud, meditating.

DODIE: Where would I be, Sid?

SID: Tell me if you hadn’t learned to meditate on God’s promises, do you think you’d be sitting here right now?

DODIE: No I don’t. If I hadn’t stored up the Word of God in my heart, those years that we had been married, I married when we were 22. I was 48 then. If I hadn’t stirred up the Word of God, if John hadn’t learned about the healing that did and I hadn’t stirred, he used to tell us, “Stir the Word of God in your heart for use when needed. You may not need it now, but someday you will.”

SID: Tell me a few scriptures. I want you, what you say when you’re by yourself, out loud with the same attitude. I’d like you to do that.

DODIE: Okay. I will not die, but I’ll live and declare the works of the Lord. He sent his Word and healed them, and saved them from their destruction. I will restore health unto you and heal you of your wounds. Every day I read all these, Sid. I have in my little iPad I read them every day of the week. I have not missed a day reading them. I don’t leave the house without reading them.

SID: But you, I’m sure had many bouts with fear.

DODIE: I did. In the middle of the night I would wake up and I was just thinking and when John was asleep right there by me, I’m thinking the devil would say, “You’re not really healed. You think you are, but you’re not.” And I would say, “No devil, you will not tempt me with that. You will not keep harassing me with those words. I shall not die, but I shall live and declare the works of the Lord.” And the devil would say, “You’ll wear that pink dress to your funeral. I’ll see to it.”

SID: And what would you do when he’d say that?

DODIE: And I’d say no. I’d replace that with a good thought, with the Word of God. I’d just replace his word with the Word of God.

SID: Okay. It was a process.

DODIE: It was a process.

SID: And she did get healed. In fact, I’ve read some doctors’ reports outside of one of her books and she really did. And if God will do that for Dodie, it’s not just healing. The promises of God, standing on the Word of God, the faith to stand on the Word of God, this woman lived it. However, I have her here for a purpose and that is she has a gift of the Spirit that we’re going to talk about. It’s a gift that is the most important gift on the planet, and I want her to pray for you to have that impartation when we come back. Don’t go away.

 

Our Guest John McTernan

Sid: I have on the telephone John McTernan. John spent 26 years in the Eternal Security Division of the IRS; he’s cofounder of International Cops for Christ. And on October 11th in 1987 he was looking on television and saw homosexual gathering and the week following witnessed the greatest one week stock market decline in the markets history up to that point. And then God supernaturally began to speak to him and told him that he had no fear of God. Although if you would have asked him a day earlier “Do you fear God?” He’d say “Of course I fear God” but something supernatural happened to him and he realized that he didn’t have a fear of God and he realized that there would be direct repercussions to the day of sins that occur in the United States of America. And he began documenting these. He found out that every hurricane that has hit the United States since 1989 has been directly tied to either abortion or homosexuality. And then on yesterday’s broadcast John we were talking about Gay Pride Day and it was on June 28, 1992 tell me about what occurred.

John: Yes Sid this is the very centerpiece in the book and if this incidence had happened alone these earthquakes that fell on Gay Pride Day and I had nothing else but that I would gone around telling people “God’s final warning to America,” that’s how awesome the event is which I’m about to tell you is. On June 28, 1992 the very morning Gay Pride Day 2 massive earthquakes occurred in southern California. One is called “The Landers Quake” that was 7.6 on the rectors scale that was Bear Mountain Quake that was 6.5. But we’re going to zero on “The Landers Quake.” That was the fourth greatest earthquake of last century I almost said this century but last century to hit the United States. And remember now that there is just a handful of earthquakes to hit the United States 7.0 or greater on the rector scale I mean that’s a massive earthquake and there’s only a handful of days that are Day Pride Day and the chances of them falling together are infinitesimal but it happened and it shook southern California. In fact when you look at a newspaper article or excuse me the Los Angeles Times for that day the headline the front page all that’s on the front page is the Gay Pride March and all the rest about the earthquakes and the damage done by the earthquakes. And it’s interesting when you look at the article about the homosexual parade it said that they had to brave the earthquakes to march. And in God’s word it says He destroys nations Leviticus chapter 18 says “He destroys nations that promote homosexuality.” Well what happened Sid was that shortly afterwards God just got this to me. I mean I don’t sit down and read scientific journals but I was in the waiting room of a doctor’s office and here was s scientific journal called “Earth.” And on it had a Lander’s Quake and I began to read this article and literally I was astonished my joy dropped because of all of the earthquakes that ever occurred Sid that has been studied by seismologists. This particular one this particular one Lander’s Quake was different than every other earthquake and remember this was on the very morning of Gay Pride Day. So I start to read this article and this is why this is the centerpiece of the book. This article went on to say that “No other earthquake this earthquake was unique in the history of studying earthquakes.” Number 1 it jumped from fault to fault gaining power. Normally it runs one fault and then stops. But that this one was jumping from fault to fault to fault getting stronger and stronger and stronger and then it just stopped I don’t know why but it just stopped. And on top of it and what made this so unique in the history of studying earthquakes it set off earthquakes 800 miles away. This was mind boggling to the scientists this was the first time that they ever were able to document that an earthquake in one location set earthquakes off 800 miles away. That earthquake set off about 15 to 20 earthquakes throughout the western section of the United States instantly following the Landers Quake. It shook 2 volcanic mountains in northern California Mt. Shasta and Mt. Lassen. Literally the entire western section of the United States of the morning of Gay Pride Day was ringing like a bell. We nearly Sid this is how important this is…if God didn’t stop this earthquake from gaining it’s strength it was right next to the San Andreas Fault this earthquake was almost bordering the San Andreas Fault the one that they had in California. And it set 4.0 and 5.0 earthquakes all over the western section of the United States. Well Sid imagine what would have happened if this earthquake didn’t stop at 7.6 and it continued on toward the San Andreas Fault. And these earthquakes around the western section of the United States instead of being 5.0’s they were 7 and 8.0 and Denver came down and Phoenix came down, Salt Lake City came down. And all of those railroads and all of the roads were broken and the conduits and Los Angeles and southern California was leveled. We would have been finished as a nation we would have had millions of people dead refugees how would we every provide for them. I mean we’re on the verge of on Gay Pride Day June 28, 1992 with that earthquake and triggering all of those earthquakes in the western section of the United States, we are on the verge of God as far as I’m concerned calling it in bringing a huge judgment and calling it in to us as a nation.

Sid: John the title of your book “God’s Final Warning to America” what do you mean by that? I mean I understand English is this final warning the things that you’ve accumulated that every sin America does you can correlate a tragedy or a stock market going down or I mean you’ve done this on so many events how much longer do we have of these warning judgments?

John: Sid I believe that with all of my heart that we’re out of time God in His grace has given us warning after warning after warning and the church has failed to respond Sid. I believe these warnings are for the church to put it together and we’re not Sid. For some reason we’re not responding, I can go to my personal reason for believing it for telling you why I don’t think the church is responding. But I we’re out of time God has warned us that the judgments are getting more and more severe, they’re coming more and more frequently. We’re really receiving tremendous warnings now over Israel and pushing Israel…

Sid: Alright you have raised an important question this is in chapter 2 of your book “The Israel Connection” explain that.

John: Sid I saw the connection between abortion and homosexuality in 1987.

Sid: As far as judgment.

John: Right.

Sid: When anything to do with homosexuality and abortion occurs the same day Mishpochah a judgment hits America, but what about Israel?

John: Well Sid I first notice Israel you remember Hurricane Andrew?

Sid: Of course.

John: Hurricane Andrew was up until this time the greatest natural disaster ever to hit the United States. It was literally like a 30 mile wide tornado it leveled whole areas of southern Florida 100’s of 1000’s of homes were destroyed and of course it went into Louisiana and damaged there also. Now if you look, and I have this I saved this newspaper USA for that day August of that was August of ’92. Yes that was August of ’92 on the front page it’s all Hurricane Andrew and on the bottom right hand side it talks about the Madrid peace process meets for the first time in Washington. That’s all that’s on the first page of that newspaper is all destruction by Hurricane…

Sid: Okay what was was the sin of the Madrid Peace Conference?

John: The Madrid Peace Conference was really just code word for Israel to give up Jerusalem or at least part of Jerusalem and at least part of the covenant land. It was “Peace for Israel to give away land to Syria” and to form a Palestinian nation. The day that the Madrid Peace process was transferred from Spain and they met for the first time in the United States that’s when Hurricane Andrew hit. You can look on if anybody has access to a library and they have USA Today you can go back to August of 1992 you will see on the front page everything about Hurricane Andrew and an article about the Madrid Peace Process. And my eye Sid I can remember to this day I was looking at it I was scanning it I was looking for Hurricane Andrew and I caught the Madrid Peace Process. I looked up and I looked down and I looked up and I said “We’ve fallen into judgment.”

Sid: Is there any chance…is there a correlation because at that time President Bush Sr. was President and he had one of the highest approval ratings of any President in history. And then most people were shocked that he lost to President Clinton is there any correlation between the two?

John: Yes Sid if there’s one thing I wish I could go back and I should have done in listening to the Lord this is it. I was following former President Bush was… I use the word bullying Israel and the United Nations over resolutions. And it was about 6 or 8 resolutions…resolutions that were promoted by the Bush administration condemning Israel and in the over what is going on with the land there in 1991, 92 and I would see the resolution and I would hear President Bush condemn Israel. And then a week later there would be a poll out and his popularity was coming down and coming down. Now to me I was watching this and I was say “Oh no he’s forcing Israel and God’s going to remove him, God’s going to remove him.” And I remember telling people that and I remember going…

Sid: Woops we’re out of time.

Our Guest Perry Stone

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SID: Perry, tell me about the earliest stages of creating the heavens and the earth.

PERRY: Okay. In the beginning of time, and I’m going to, let me just read this verse because this is our foundational verse. God says to this person, “You have been in Eden, the Garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering. The sardius topaz, diamond barrel onyx, jasper sapphire, emerald, carbuncle and gold, the workmanship of your tabrets and pipes was prepared in the day that thou was created. Thou are the anointed cherub that covereth.” And he says this, “I have set thee so upon the Holy Mountain of God and you’ve walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways until inequity was found in you and then the heart was lifted up because of thy beauty.” Now there’s a couple things here. Number one, it mentions the Mountain of God. This is not Jerusalem. This is the heavenly mountain where God dwells. Number two, it mentions Eden. Now people assume this is the Garden of Eden. This is not the Garden of Eden. There is a heavenly paradise or a heavenly Eden just like there was an earthly Eden. All right. Number three, now this is the part that puzzled me for years. This is where it starts making sense. “You are the anointed cherub.” This is a cherub that’s anointed. No other angel is called anointed by this angel right here. The thing that really got me was, “You have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.” So let me tell you how this happened. So I’m with a guy in Texas, a pastor in Texas who works with gemstones, and he says to me, he says this, “You know every gemstone is formed in fire.” Whoa, whoa, whoa.

SID: Mountain of fire, stones of fire.

PERRY: Thank you. Then I go to this Jewish translation of the Bible, and I apologize for not giving you which one it is, because there’s many translations, and it says, “You walked up and down in the gemstones of fire.” I go, whoa, whoa, whoa. Now then I’m thinking, okay, this is Satan. This is a picture. Most scholars will agree this is Satan. Pipes, he was a worship leader because pipes were created in the same, but it’s got nine stones. Now here’s what’s odd. These same stones are the same nine that are also part of the 12 stones on the breastplate of the priest in Exodus. These nine stones are also, Sid, and this is where the triggering came, this is where it starts clicking, nine of the 12 stones in the city New Jerusalem.

SID: So when you have 12 stones on the breastplate.

PERRY: That’s right.

SID: When we have, in New Jerusalem there’s 12 stones. So come Satan only had nine?

PERRY: That’s what got me asking this. All right. Then I realized this. Every precious stone is your covering. Now I used to think he had a breastplate with nine stones. That’s how I took this, because I’m thinking, okay, this is similar. Wait a minute, but it doesn’t say anything. It just says it was your covering. And I’m thinking that word in Hebrew, “cover”, what’s it mean? Okay, watch this. It means there were gemstones on fingers, gemstones on his arm, gemstones on his, but wait a minute, he’s only got nine. Why nine? You ready? Because Satan was the one, this angel was walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire preparing the stones for the holy city New Jerusalem. Watch this. Every time a floor, first floor, second floor is completed, God allows him to be covered by that gemstone. But do you know what stones are missing from him?

SID: No.

PERRY: You ready? The last three stories of the New Jerusalem. I hear them go “oh” in the audience. They’re getting it. He fell from Heaven and was cast out between the ninth and tenth story being completed. He completed the ninth, but he never, now why? Because he was lifted up because of his beauty.

SID: This show is a little different because we previously got our people from Facebook to write in questions that they had. They came up with some great questions. Why don’t you give us a question.

Audience member: The first question is what will we remember in Heaven?

PERRY: Now the Bible says this, it says, “The former things will not be remembered and will come into remembrance,” which presents problems. Does that mean that all of our loved ones that are in Heaven we don’t remember? The answer is we know our loved ones in Heaven because Paul said, “We’ll be known even as we were known.” I’ll know that’s mom, I’ll know that’s dad, my brother and sister. Now the reason the former things will not be remembered is because if people we knew did not make it, how would Heaven be delightful? If you have children that didn’t make it. So I don’t know how God does this, but if God, this is what he told me, he said, “Son, if I’m able to look at a person and they ask me for forgiveness of sins and I can erase their sins and never bring them up or remember them, I can do the same thing with people’s past.” So in other words, there will come a point, because it says, “No more tears will come in your eyes.” At some point everything about anything negative, anything that happened in your life bad and the people who didn’t make it will not be remembered.

SID: You had another question.

Audience member: It’s actually a long question, a very good question. You talked about the link between Satan being cast out of Heaven during the construction of the Heavenly Jerusalem. Why would this cause such hatred for Israel and Jerusalem today?

PERRY: I’m going to compare it to a [unintelligible], like a story.

SID: It has to be a short answer.

PERRY: Okay. If I worked for a major corporation and I was the CEO over the whole thing and they booted me out because of something I did wrong, if I didn’t take the right attitude I could cause a rebellion in the company and I would hate that company the rest of my life. His hatred for Jerusalem is a continual reminder of his failure.

SID: When we come back I want to find out what happens in this New Jerusalem, what our job is going to be. What happens when we’re in Heaven? What is our job? Are we going to work? Are we going to go to school? What are we going to do? Don’t go away. Be right back.

Our Guests John and Lisa Bevere

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SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guests, best-selling authors John and Lisa Bevere, unmasked. What do I mean by that? They were sabotaged when they got married. There is no way in the world their marriage should have survived and they have decided if they will tell people what happened to them it will give hope. But what happened to them wasn’t natural. What happened to them that gave them a marriage from Heaven was supernatural. Hello. Look, I cannot believe what I read in the newspaper. The institution of marriage is under assault. John Bevere, what’s going on and what’s behind what’s going on? What is the reason that the institution of marriage is under such assault?

JOHN: Marriage was authored, created, designed up by God himself. Satan hates anything that’s of God. The spirit of this world wants to destroy marriage and is on an active path to do it. And this is why Lisa and I decided to start speaking on marriage because we know now not only are marriages under attack, and they are under attack, but the very institution as you just said is being assaulted. And so we need to voice out what God says about marriage because it is so valuable.

SID: You know, John looks like he’s kind of meek. But would you believe on his first date with Lisa he gets her saved, he gets her speaking in tongues filled with the Spirit, and he gets her healed of a life-threatening disease, on the first date. I guess I’d better find out what happened on the second. No, I’m just teasing. Well I’ll tell you what happened. He marries Lisa. Now you’ve heard the saying, opposites attract, but this is ridiculous. Lisa, what was your background?

LISA: Okay. So I’m half Sicilian, Apache Indian, French and English. My grandmother had been married four times.

JOHN: And I’m fortunate to be alive.

LISA: Yes. My grandmother had been married four times. My parents were married, divorced, remarried, divorced. My dad was an alcoholic. I came from dysfunction way before it was popular. We were doing it way before the Kardashians. And basically, you know, John and I, we just came together. I had no good thing. I brought adultery, I brought alcoholism, I brought dysfunction and he brought all the good, and I brought all of the bad. I remember when he introduced me to his mom, his mom was like, “Wait a minute, we have never had divorce in our family before.” And I was like, that’s not my name. But it was really a scary thing when I came in. But you know, we decided, Sid, God wasn’t interested.

SID: You got me laughing so much, I don’t know what to say.

LISA: Well we decided it wasn’t about John’s good and my bad. It was about holy. And the truth is God wants to do a new thing with couples. And I brought nothing to the table, and we wanted to do our marriage different, but we didn’t know how to do it different. And I personally had a vision about three months into my marriage, and it was the vision of a perfect man, and this man looked like my husband, but he did not act like my husband. And so I decided my job was to change my husband from the man he was to the man he could be if he would work with me, but John had a vision of his own.

SID: But Lisa, not one woman listening to you understands.

LISA: No.

SID: No woman wants to change her husband.

LISA: None of us do.

SID: Okay, that’s what she brought in.

LISA: Yeah.

SID: Now what did you bring in?

JOHN: Well I brought in, I mean, my family, my mom and dad are amazing. They married 66 years. My dad just went home to be with the Lord this year. But what I brought in was a lot of insecurity. I was the only boy of six children. So I was the chosen one, my son, my son, according to my mother. So a lot of—

SID: I thought that was just Jewish men.

LISA: No, it’s Italians, too.

JOHN: So a lot of selfishness and a lot of temper, a lot of arguing, a lot of this is my way or the highway. And we clashed like the Titans. I mean, it was like WWF wrestling the first couple of years of our marriage. It was horrific. And we really realized all of a sudden, hey wait a minute, this happily ever after just doesn’t happen. And so, you know, we started, Lisa and I started realizing in order to have a good marriage you have to work to have a good marriage.

SID: But I have to ask you this question, Lisa. Why the dirty laundry? Why are you doing this?

LISA: Well you know, I think too many people feel isolated. They feel hopeless. So John and I said, you know what, we’re going to open up our lives. Because we sit in conferences and we would hear the pastors say, “my wife and I have never had a fight” and I’d be like, for the love of Jesus, we’ve never not fought. I mean, we decided, what in the world? So we just did not know how to do it correctly. And so we were like, all right, people are going to have different differences and we need to be constructive with this. Plus John and I have a unique dynamic that other people didn’t have. We both are strong personalities. We both have voices. It isn’t I’m just supportive of him and he’s not there or he’s just supportive of me. But couples coming up, they want to do it together, Sid. I think that we are created to do it together. And it would have been easier if we did it separately. So we said, let’s just put it all out there. Let’s talk about our struggles in the past with abuse, let’s talk about our struggles with control, let’s talk about our struggles with fear, let’s talk about what we’ve regretted and what we’ve learned. We’ve been married for 33 years. That’s a long time. And so we’ve learned a lot of lessons that we don’t think other people need to learn the hard way.

SID: John, you were addicted to pornography before you got married.

JOHN: Yep.

SID: And before it was almost commonplace. Right now, the statistics are overwhelming. Tell me a few of them.

JOHN: Well it started at age 11. And then when I married Lisa, I thought, gosh, when I get married to this beautiful woman it will all go away. Well it certainly didn’t. And so it was a big battle.

SID: I’ll tell you what, hold that thought. I want to find out how you got supernaturally, I mean, he thought if he just would get married to a beautiful woman, he wouldn’t be interested in pornography. He didn’t know that that’s one of the strongest addictions on the planet. When we come back I want to find out how they supernaturally went from physical abuse with each other, verbal abuse, her taking off her engagement ring. I mean, and to have the marriage they have today, and I say there is tikvah, that’s a Hebrew word, there is hope. We’ll be right back.

Our Guest Gary Kah

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Sid: All of this week we will be talking to people that have a prophetic edge to give us insight because there’s no reason for God’s people to not have insight into the times and seasons that we’re living in.  I have on the telephone Gary Kah and I just recently read from your webpage an article called “America’s Wakeup Call.”  For those that aren’t familiar with Gary back in the 1980’s he was the Europe and Middle East Trade Specialist for the government of Indiana which caused him to visit more than 20 countries. And he came into information which has caused a lifetime investigation as to what is going on in the late great planet earth so to speak.  Gary the thing that really intrigued me is your information on the heart of Islam that Islam has historically been a bloody religion. Yet when I talk to my Muslim friends in the United States they seem like just like everyone else they do not seem after vengeance or that sort of thing or violence of any kind.

Gary: Yeah I believe honestly Sid that the majority of the Islamic people are peace loving and decent citizens who love this country. As Bible believing Christians even though I disagree with many of their religious and religious beliefs and practices and we need not to support them it would be wrong to persecute Muslims for their faith.  We need to go out of our way to show the love of Christ to these people in this point in time. But as you’ve said having said that people need to understand that historically that Islam has been a very bloody religion and there’s been a lot of persecution of Christians throughout the world. Most recently in the Sudan where over 2 million Christians have been wiped out by people rooted in Islam. And the reason for the bloodiness is really buried one of the reasons is there’s a very strong influence of violence secret societies that runs through the Islamic culture and has for centuries.  The second reason is a lot of the peripheral religious writings that some Muslims subscribe to promise a better place in paradise including a harem of 72 virgins for those men who die while taking the lives of unbelievers.

Sid: But even more important than that that’s the only assurance a Muslim has to salvation is to die as a martyr otherwise it’s guess work.

Gary: That’s exactly right and then when we add to all of this the Quran itself and when you look at some of the quotes.  I went out and got me a copy of the Quran and read through a good part of it and I just want to share 3 of the shorter quotes here they’re more than these but to give you an idea.  Surah 5:51 of the Quran says “Believers take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends they are friends with one another.  Whoever seeks your friendship they shall become one of their number god does not guide the wrong doers.”  In Surah 9:73 it says “Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them hell shall be their home and evil fate.”

Sid:  Let me touch on that I don’t know if you got that Mishpochah it says in their holy book it says “Make war on the unbelievers and hypocrites and deal rigorously with them hell shall be their home and evil fate.”  You could see how someone could read that and take it to the extreme to what we saw at the World Trade Center.

Gary: Absolutely and they’re other quotes that are even worse. This one says this is from Surah 9:5 “When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them; arrest them beseech them and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” And then finally Surah 5:33-34 says “Says those that make war against god (meaning Allah) and his apostle Mohammed and spread this order in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides or be banished from the land.” So that’s just a few of the examples. So for people to say the Quran is not bloody that it’s a peaceful book that part is not true.  But I personally believe and I hope that many of the Islamic people haven’t even read of the Quran or if they have they don’t take it all literally because if they did we would all be in a heap of trouble.

Sid:  Well what concerns me is the number of nations in the world today that have a majority Muslim rule which base their law on the quotes that you’ve just stated.

Gary: Well that’s exactly right. Even Saudi Arabia which is viewed as a moderate country as far as the United States is concerned is actually very stringent on the many of these things.  So you know they may be moderate politically in cooperating with us on certain things but when it comes to religious matters it is still a crime over there to witness to Muslims and try to convert them to Christianity. You can pay a stiff fine and possibly even pay for your life in places like Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iraq if you are caught.

Sid: So what is the goal based on your knowledge based on the various agendas what is the real goal of Bin Laden and what has just occurred?

Gary: Well I believe the purpose of terrorism as a whole not just Bin Laden is to tighten the screws on western society to get us as a people to be will to go along with something that under normal circumstances we would never go for.  And I’m speaking specifically here of world government. If we’re ever to go along with a one world political and religious system we have to have a reason for doing so. People are not going to do it automatically.  And if terrorism causes so much fear and brings us to the point that people think this is it the world’s going to destroy itself something has to be done.  Then those proposing world government can step in and present it as a solution to all of these problems and bring it on board in the name of world peace and solving many of the other worlds problems.  And I believe this is the specific purpose of terrorism is to apply that necessary pressure. I personally believe Sid that Bin Laden is not capable of carrying this out on his own I think its way bigger than him. And I think in time we’ll see that I think that you’ve got hidden powers secret forces involved in many countries around the world supporting this terrorist network. What you have to understand is… well let’s stay within the realm of Islam for a moment. This country has approximately 6 million Muslims I believe that’s the statistic I’ve heard sited most frequently on the media over the last 2 weeks.  If only l out of a 1000 of those people would be willing to commit an act of terrorism you’re talking about 10s of 1000s. And when you add to that other secret societies that are violent perhaps outside of Islam the propensity here for major havoc is enormous.

Sid: Gary let me read a statistic to you this was an online survey by the public newspapers and the question was asked on line “Would we be willing to surrender certain freedoms in favor of greater national security.”  72% of the people said “We’d be willing to surrender certain freedoms for the sake of our survival.”

Gary: Yeah I’ve seen that same study and I think people are always willing to accept major changes more readily during time of crisis rather than other times.  And so if we’re not very careful here… you know there’s several different directions America can take as a result of this act. One is more government regulation, less freedoms, more surveillance and ultimately the international infrastructure that is in the process of being built around the United Nations could be strengthened and we could be one step, a big step closer to world government after all of this that’s one possibility.  The second possibility is that terrorism could be used to bring the United States down.  If in the eyes of your global planners the United States has played its role and fulfilled its purpose then the next step in their thinking could well be that it’s time for the US to be eliminated. We want to bring the capitol back to Europe from New York and as long as the United Nations is in New York and it’s standing that is the seat of global government the way things are coming together. So if it is ever to go back to Europe then something would have to happen to New York.  And in my book “In Roots of Global Occupation” on page 65, again this came out over 10 years ago I describe exactly such a scenario amazing similar to just what took place in New York and what is happening right now.  So it is a time for us as Christians to be very very much in prayer and in step with God’s will for our lives that we make the most of time that we have left because we don’t know exactly what’s going to unfold in the months ahead the ways things are going to happen.

Sid: What is your sanctified speculation as to what will occur Gary Kah?

Gary: I think that we will see additional waves of terrorism and I don’t know how far it’s going to go and how quickly it gets there but I think we’ve just seen the beginning and I think that there will be more. And again all of this will be designed to tighten the screws on western society to get us ultimately to embrace some type of global system.

Sid: Do you believe that what the traditional rabbis out of Israel are saying is true that we are in the footsteps of the Messiah’s coming?

Gary: Well one thing is for certain we are definitely getting closer and we are getting closer by the day we’re not moving further away. What I do believe though personally I think in this country things are going to get very difficult before the Lord returns. And I know that’s not a popular thing to say but I sense that with everything in me and that’s why I have been teaching and preaching repentance on the part of everyone.  We in the church have become so complacent in many ways in this country and we have got to be ready to stand firm very firm for our Lord and not to be ashamed of Him in any way.  Because I think that difficult times are soon going to come upon America.

Sid: Gary our time is up and you have so much more to say we’ll be interviewing you on tomorrows broadcast.

Sid Roth

sid

Sid: We have found the way everyone everywhere is going to hear the good news is Romans 1:16 by going to the Jew first it opens up a supernatural door of evangelism to all people. And I call it the law of evangelism and wake up sleeping church; this is your greatest hour. I believe the harvest is upon us we’re just waiting for the laborers we just don’t even realize it.

Now on yesterday’s broadcast I told you that I was in Israel; I had one of the most amazing experiences I’ll tell you about all this week in the land. I was walking up early in the morning and I heard a near audible voice that said “Economic Judgment.” And my discernment was that it was the Untied States and it was because we were tampering with the apple of God’s eye. You see Israel is the plum line if you will that’s what Amos calls it. “Israel is God’s plum line.” And when you cross that plum line you’re in no man’s land, every single time the United States of America has come against Israel there have been warning judgments from God. It’s all been documented by my friend John McTernan and what’s going on right now there’s a security fence that Israel is building. Why? If they can save one Jewish life it would be worthwhile. And what’s the United States trying to do? Muscle Israel so that every dollar that they spend on a security fence to save Jewish lives will be deducted from the loans the United States is giving. Well God’s not very happy over that, God’s not very happy about forming a Palestinian state. Let me tell you something I am not political and God is not political it’s not a democracy it’s the King, and the King speaks and those that love Him obey.

I believe the first Zionist. A Zionist believes the Jewish people are entitled to the land of Israel unconditionally forever was God almighty. Not the political, I’m not talking about the political I’m talking about the biblical. Psalm 105 verse 8 to 11 says “God has given the physical land of Israel.” He says this 3 different ways in this Psalm 105 verse 8 to 11 “I’ve given the land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” not to Ishmael the father of the Arab people but to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob He says for everlasting. I’ve given this land to them forever, I’ve given this land to them for a 1000 generations.

I have to tell you this I’m reminded of a wonderful waitress in Israel. This waitress looked at me when I asked her the question “If you could talk to President Bush what would you tell him?” And she said what a lot of Israelis say I think that their bargaining for time when they say it “That’s a difficult question” but then she gave me an answer. She said “When 9/11 occurred, when September 11th occurred the great tragedy of the Twin Towers we Israelis wept because we understand what it is to have our loved ones destroyed.” And you know what happened, the Palestinians danced in the streets. And so my question to President Bush and to the Americans for that matter is “Do you weep for our dead ones?” Very penetrating question I tell you God says “That the plumb line I tell you that the last chance for any nation is your position on Israel.”

Joel chapter 3 I’ll give you an Old Covenant quote and then a New Covenant quote. Joel chapter 3 says that “Nations of the earth will be judged for one thing in the last days dividing up His land” the land that He gave for everlasting, forever and a l000 generations to the Jewish people. And Matthew 25 says that “Nations will be divided as easily as the shepherd knows the difference between a goat and a sheep.” A goat has a mind of its own a sheep follows a shepherd. Nations will be divided in the last days according to Matthew 25 verse 40 on one point and one point only “As you have done to the least of these my brethren.” Now that was before Jesus died and rose from the dead so that means there were no Christians at that time. So who were His brethren His physical brethren were the Jewish people? So He says “As you have done unto the least of these my brethren (My Jewish people) you’ve done unto Me and nations will be divided in the last days over that issue.

So you can see why I heard the word economic judgment I believe that we can buy time and we can buy time by praying for the President of the United. I believe that God means to bless the United States of America. Why? Because of Genesis 12:3 United States has been a blessing to the Jewish people and I believe this is the single reason why we are the most blessed country on the face of the earth. There’s other things that we’ve done that are good but there sure are a whole lot of things that we’ve done that are bad. So I believe the swing vote always will be and always has been the nation Israel. And we have been a blessing to the nation Israel and that’s why we’ve been blessed.

But… if we do not pray for the President of the United States I mean the fact that we have an outspoken man that loves God in the White House was he was put into the White House for the blessing of the United States of America. But the fact of the matter is he is surrounded by advisors some that are Christian I might add, but are into what is called Replacement Theology. In other words the church replaces Israel, I don’t know what they do with the scripture that says the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” In other words God doesn’t change His mind, however I’m glad He doesn’t change His mind with His promises to natural Israel He will not change His mind to the spiritual seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That’s what gives us our security, but the truth of the matter is that we’re at a crossroads and those surrounding the President are either into this replacement theology or there into economic plans such as oil. And our State Department has a spirit about it, and it’s had it for years and it’s an old time spirit it’s found in the book of Esther. Esther is a type of the church.

Esther was the only one on behalf of the Jewish people, the only one that could go to the king a type of god. And Haman was the one that wanted to kill all of the Jewish people and that spirit is on our State Department now and on our advisers now. And the only thing that’ll get rid of it is prayer. So if you have ever prayed, listen I’ve been to 3rd world countries, I like the prosperity that we have in the United States of America. I don’t want to see it change and I believe that we have a President that could be a God pleaser rather than a man pleaser. And I believe the swing vote is not the President of the United States I believe the swing vote will be the prayers of believers.

So I tell you that a day will come when a dollar will not have any value in the United States of America. There will be economic judgment in the United States, the question is can we delay this? I believe that our prayers can, but if we don’t the only thing that is going to have value will be the kingdom of God. And that’s why actually when I was in Israel I got an email and the email said from our supplier of books “We’re passing your books out in the streets of Jerusalem and we’re down to 100; we did find another source in which there were some more books that we could get in their hands but they are low, can you reprint?” And I believe just as I said the shofar is used to announce judgment or danger, the shofar is used to announce royalty.

This is God’s time to have mercy on Israel. Just as in the natural they had almost historic amounts of rain a type of the Holy Spirit. I saw things on this trip I can’t wait to tell you about them that tell me that the rains are about ready to fall of the Spirit of the Living God. The shofar is like the prophet’s voices all of them wailing at once. All of these prophecies ready to come to the front. It says in Romans the 11th chapter the 11th verse. “I say then have they the Jewish stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not but through their fall provoke them to jealousy salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world and their failure riches for the Gentiles how much more their fullness.” In other words, Paul is saying a time is coming that will be such a blessing to the world when the fullness of the Jewish people come in.

I believe that I can hear the rain now, can’t you hear it? I can hear the rain of the Holy Spirit coming down on the land of Israel, I can hear the prophets for the past 1000’s of years all of their voices wailing. I can hear that shofar blast right now. (Shofar blast sounded) It’s coming to the land of Israel, revival is coming to the land of Israel and if it was a blessing the Jewish people rejected their Messiah, so the Gentiles could be grafted in how much more a greater blessing when they receive their Messiah, it’s going to cause life from the dead, resurrection power from the dead. I believe it’s going to cause the return of the Messiah. After all Messiah said “I shall not return until the Jewish people say “Baruch haBah b’shem Adonai”   Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.”

Our Guest Robert Inguanzo

Robert Inguanzo (1282) 2002

Sid: My guest by way of telephone if you haven’t gathered is red hot for the Messiah; his name is Robert Inguanzo. I’m speaking to him at his home in Lincoln Park, New Jersey. And Robert has reason to be a grateful man because he not only was healed of so many incurable diseases but unbeknownst to him he had HIV-AIDS and his wife did not have AIDS, his daughter did not have AIDS, and the little baby that his wife was pregnant of did not have AIDS but he sure did and God performed a mighty miracle. But you know something Robert that intrigues me is the gift of prophecy that operates within you. For instance you were one of a number of people that several months before 9/11 you were speaking in a church this was April of 2001 and you had a warning that you prophesied, what was that?

Robert: Well I was giving my testimony and half way during the testimony the Lord stops me and I start prophesying about the coming revival. And He shows me how there’s 4 angels at the 4 corners of the United States and see how those angels were being removed the protection of the United States was being removed and that how terrorism was going to come into the United States. Now He didn’t specifically tell me about 9/11 or the World Trade Center but He did show me that the protection was going to be removed. And I believe with all of my heart that that is only the beginning that there’s going to be much more attacks from different areas of the United States. And I do believe that the… He showed me how the economy of the United States was going to collapse and He showed me that all of this was going to come because the United States was going to stop supporting Israel. And when the United States stops doing that then that’s when all of these other attacks were going to take place. Ever since then the Lord has been using me in very peculiar ways of what I say. A lot of time I will be preaching and people will start getting oil all over them like an olive oil. A lot of times I will be preaching and all of a sudden there will be a scent of flowers in the church. A beautiful smell of flowers; other times there will be like a gold dust that starts falling and other times it falls on…

Sid: Now are you the only one that sees this or does other people?

Robert: Oh no everybody sees it sometimes it falls like rain, like a light mist. There was this one girl in this one church I was in that she was kind of sad because she didn’t get any dust on her any of the gold dust and when she went home she took her clothes off to take a shower and when she took her clothes off there was gold dust all over, gold dust all over her. Sometimes I’ll be driving and one time I’d be driving with my wife and we’re just listening to Christian music you know beautiful music and all of the sudden she starts getting gold dust all over her arm. One time I was in a restaurant and we were just eating talking about the Lord with some friends at church and my wife said “Robert you’re getting some dust gold dust on your face.” And I said “Oh wow praise God.” And then when I got home I was wearing a hat because it was a few months ago when it was really cold and when I took my hat off in my house all gold dust started fell out of my hat. (Chuckling) So God you know…

Sid: Now when these things happen in a congregation or when your speaking, these signs… are miracles released?

Robert: Very much miracles released but Sid something that really caught my attention at the beginning because you know it doesn’t happen when you want it to it happens, when God wants. But I noticed with the gold dust the oil and all of that it happens in my ministry at least when there’s not a lot of people that are not saved; I noticed that every time like when they’re all Christians we won’t see that many manifestations of miracles, but when there’s a lot of people that are unsaved that’s when we see them. And I’ve noticed that every time.

Sid: Well you know in my opinion the purpose of a miracle and the purpose of a sign is to demand people’s attention so that they can hear the gospel.

Robert: Well it does I’m telling you they run up to the front when I make the altar call I tell them I give 5 seconds for anybody unsaved that wants to get know Jesus and you have seen the reality of Jesus. All of these signs you are seeing is not for me it’s not to glorify me because I’m the first one Sid to admit that I am nothing; all I have is what God has given me and it’s all for His glory. And when I started explaining this Sid I’m telling you I give them 5 seconds and that’s all I need, they run they literally run to the front and accept Jesus as…

Sid: What is the Lord showing you about Israel being a time clock?

Robert: Okay the Lord was telling me about the coming revival. He was telling me about time was short how His coming was short and that Israel was like the clock of time. And He would say “Robert look, look what’s happening in Israel, look look what’s happening in Israel.” And He would show me how there was going to be a move of God in Israel and not only in Israel but that we were going to see that all around the world. He once showed me how this gigantic wave was going to cover the earth but he showed me something very interesting He showed me that the churches that were near to the water this is spiritually speaking not literally near the water. Meaning churches that were on fire for God this is very important for the pastors to hear churches that pray for Israel would be close to the water and those were the churches with the hunger of God that would be hit with the wave first. Then the other churches that were more in dry land he would show me the dry land you know farther away from the water they were going to catch the revival from those churches that first caught it. I thought that that was so interesting.

Sid: Well it sure fits spiritually based on the scriptures. What about the economy of the United States what is the Lord showing you?

Robert: The Lord showed me that the economy of the United States was going to collapse totally.

Sid: What would cause this?

Robert: The Lord showed me also the reason that this was going to happen was because the United States was going to be pressured to abandon Israel and when that happened then the economy of the United States would suffer greatly. And terrible things were going to come not only to the United States but to the world, but to the church the people in the churches and pastors that were on fire for God was going to be the best time in the history. The Lord showed me that it was going to be the last revival and that it was going to be the greatest revival that ever hit the church. That’s coming Sid that’s coming very soon. I couldn’t really honestly put a date on it but I know I feel in my spirit that it’s coming soon.

Sid: Let me ask you a question, if our whole economy is going to go tilt because we’re going to back off of Israel; by the way what will cause us to back off of Israel?”

Robert: He didn’t tell me exactly what it was but I believe in my spirit that it’s going to have to do with oil; the Arabs I believe this that it’s going to be the Arabs threatening the United States to pick either the petroleum or Israel. And the United States will be pressured by the people of the United States to abandon Israel.

Sid: Okay if the economy is going to go sour, go south so to speak, what should we be infesting out money in did God show you?

Robert: Yes definitely he showed me very specifically that we want to make smart investments, if we want to make wise investments we should invest into the kingdom of God where there will never be any collapse. When we invest into the kingdom of God with spreading the gospel so many people cannot travel like for example I travel to many different countries and a lot of time I depend on people’s offering and all of that. Sometimes they can’t do what I’m doing but you know because of their sowing in the gospel in me I’m spreading the gospel. That’s what we have to do to all of these ministries that are of God we have to very careful we have to sow in very good soil that the gospel is spread all around the world.

Sid: Are we going to see creative miracles?

Robert: Well Sid I believe in this coming revival that we’re going to see miracles like we have never even dreamed about. I believe that we’re going to see so many creative miracles; I believe that… the Lord also showed me about a generation that was going to be born in the fire. In other words that people that are going to be saved when the revival hits they’re going to think that all of the creative miracles and even raising dead they’re going to think that all of that was always in the church. It’s like if you tell…

Sid: I see what you’re saying we’re out of time.

Our Guest Dr. RT Kendall

Dr. RT KendallSid: My guest by way of telephone, I’m speaking to him from his home in Key Largo, Florida is RT Kendall. RT is former Senior Pastor of Westminster Chapel in London, England. He holds a PhD from Oxford University. And I’m interviewing him this week on a biggie one of the more important things that God wants you to conquer. And it’s called “Total Forgiveness.” Not forgiveness but “Total Forgiveness” subtitle “When Everything in You Wants to Hold a Grudge, Point a Finger and Remember the Pain God Wants You to Lay it all Aside.” Now on yesterdays broadcast I through a phrase for you to cogitate and meditate on and this phrase actually I was having breakfast with my wife Joy and she teaches women on subjects such as what we’re talking about this week and she said this statement to me which really got me thinking. She said “Unforgiveness keeps us from loving again.” We’re so interested in protecting ourselves that because we don’t want to be hurt you know we’re not stupid, we’re not masochists but we’re so interested in protecting ourselves that when we hold on to this unforgiveness and these grudges it keeps us from loving again. But then you know what it keeps us from receiving love because…you know RT there’s a sowing and reaping principal and we wonder why no one’s loving us well we’re so crippled that we can’t love others.

RT: Well I think in connection with what your wife said, and she’s right, the degree to which we don’t forgive is the degree we’re unable to love. And 1 John 4:18 says “Perfect love casts out fear.” Fear has to do with punishment and so we want to punish the people that’s just why we can’t forgive we want to see them punished and we want to take punishment upon our own hands and we want to do what God said He alone will do “Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.” But when we want to do it we’re taking over God’s job and that she’s right “Unforgiveness means that we cannot love.” But that we start forgiving then we start loving.

Sid: And you know in your book you say “Social scientists are discovering that forgiveness helps emotional and physical healings.” And I’m reminded when I read that I was recently at the Toronto Airport Church ministering and John Arnott told me a story I asked him “How come you’re having so many miracles here?” And he said “Sid the real secret is forgiveness.” I’ll tell you a story that there was a woman as child she fell off a horse the horse kicked her bucked her and she fell off the horse and she had back pains, excruciating pains her whole life and she would go to every healing line she could. She’d go to every top healing evangelist she could find – nothing. She’d to doctors, nothing doctors could do. So she was talking to John about this and John looked at her and said “Did you ever forgive the horse?” And she said “No.” And this is a true story and she forgave the horse, John prayed for her instantly healed.

RT: That’s amazing. I preached this sermon on “Total Forgiveness” in Melbourne, Florida about 2 months ago and the next day a lady came to me and said “I went forward last night when you preached your sermon in the middle of the night early this morning I was healed,” she said “Healed, the problems gone!” And it just shows what the Holy Spirit will do when He’s release to be Himself.

Sid: Let’s just review a little bit of what we’ve said today about “Total Forgiveness.”

RT: Well I’ve said mainly 2 things:

  • We know we’ve totally forgiven when we stop telling people what they did to us
  • We know we’ve totally forgiven when we will not let the people be afraid of us

You see God doesn’t want us to be afraid of Him He’s not given us a spirit of fear but His Spirit testifies when we cry “Abba Father.” He wants us to have intimacy with Him. And as long as we’re afraid of Him we cannot have that. And when people are afraid of us it’s because they think we want to hurt them. Joseph forgave his brothers and said “Come close to me.” And then then there’s the third thing Sid…

  • It’s when we don’t those people to feel guilty

Joseph said “Don’t be angry with yourselves for what you did.” Now that’s amazing normally we want people to be very very very upset with what they’ve done and they say “Well I’ll forgive you when I think you’re sufficiently sorry. And one thing that I have people put to me all the time is “Well, how can you forgive them if they’re not sorry, surely they must repent first.”

Sid: They must practice penance.

RT: Yeah I say to them well if you are going to live under the Old Covenant fine it’s tit for tat, but when you take Jesus as your model it’s a whole new world. How many people do you think were repenting at the cross when Jesus said “Father forgive them they don’t know what they’re doing?” And I choose to make Jesus my model by the way Sid when people are sorry it takes little grace to forgive them but when they’re not sorry it takes a lot of grace to forgive them, and nobody was sorry at the cross that Jesus said “Father forgive them.” And one of the things I’ve observed perhaps you have as well most people that I have had to forgive in fact the people that I had to forgive that I have talked to you about a couple days ago when Joseph Zung said “RT you must totally forgive them” those people never felt that they did anything wrong I’m sure of it you could put them under a lie detector and they would feel “Why is RT worried about this?” Most people I have had to forgive they don’t feel they’ve done anything wrong and that’s what kind of hurts you think “Well they ought to know.” And for this reason I caution people, if you have now forgiven them don’t run to them and say “Guess what I forgive you for what you’ve done” because they are going to look at you and say “You’ve forgiven me for what? “Well you know what you’ve done. ‘Well you surely do.’ Well I’m sorry I don’t.” Well now you have a real fight on your hands, don’t go to them and say “I forgive you.” It’s got to happen in your heart and don’t wait them…don’t wait for them to repent chances are you’ll never have to forgive them if you go by that it’s got to happen in your heart.

Sid: Let me ask you a question “Let’s suppose that someone has wounded you deeply and you’ve wounded them deeply and you understand about forgiveness so the first thing you do is you go to them and you repent for having wounded them and ask them to forgive you, which they do. But then they don’t repent for what they’ve done to you, what do you suggest?”

RT: It’s their problem don’t let it be your problem.

Sid: What if it becomes your problem?

RT: Well then get over it!

Sid: (Laughing)

RT: You are required to forgive them and required to get over the self-pity. The only time ever, ever that you go them and say “I forgive you” it’s when they’re begging for it they’re dying for you to forgive them and they’ll be thrilled to hear. But 9 times out of 10 and that’s conservative I’ll say 99 times out of 100 the people I have to forgive they honestly do not believe they’ve done anything wrong at all. Which goes to show I’ve probably hurt people and I don’t know it, have you ever thought about that. There are probably people that have to forgive me and if they came to me and say that I’ve hurt them I would be astounded, I’d be shocked but I have and to them it’s very very real. And so in my own case when I have felt the people hurt me I don’t wait to see that they’ve done the wrong thing and are sorry I just forgive them and never let them know that it was a problem. Which brings me to the 4th proof that we’ve totally forgiven:

  1. That you don’t tell what they did
  2. Won’t let them be afraid of us
  3. Don’t let them feel guilty
  4. Sid we let them save face

And you know what Joseph said to those brothers? He said “Don’t be angry with yourselves because it wasn’t you who sent me here it was God.” Amazing isn’t it.

Sid: You know what I found is is some of the worst situations that I have been in that the devil meant for evil God has actually used it for good.

RT: Exactly. Well if I’m allowed to say it I’ve written a book called “God Meant it For Good” and it is on the life of Joseph and I have dedicated that book to Joseph Zung that we’ve been talking about. The book “Total Forgiveness” is taking one chapter out of “God Meant it For Good” and making a whole book out of it because that was the part that most about in the book “God Meant it For Good.”

Sid: Now I’m reading quotes from “Who’s Who” of Christendom to people that are endorsing your book but I’m wondering if there’s one quick story that comes to mind about someone that’s either heard you speak or read this message and the effect it had on them.

RT: Well I’ve had more unsolicited letters than you can imagine of people saying “You’ve put my marriage back together.” I’ve had a pastor say that “My deacons now speak to each other.” I’ve had a situation where a pastor was reconciled to his congregation would never ever quote you know names or given give a hint but this book has been the nearest to performing the miraculous of any book than I have ever written. And that is simply because when we forgive the Holy Spirit is released to be Himself and this why people get healed, it affects your health, blood pressure will go down, in some cases arthritis if caused by holding a grudge. And you mentioned earlier that the non-Christian world has discovered the value of forgiveness and if non-Christians can see the value of forgiveness that leaves us without excuse doesn’t it.

Sid: How much more I mean “We’re supposed to be the light and the salt.”

RT: That’s exactly it.

Our Guest Larry Sparks

Larry Sparks

Sid: Well I have a young man Larry Sparks on the telephone that he is just finishing up on his Masters Degree and the subject he’s getting it in anyone would like this. How in the world do you get a Masters in studying revival Larry? (Laughing)

Larry: Well I started my program and it was one of those things where I began with a Master of Divinity and Practical Theology. And over time it was one of those things where different concentrations came up. I had the opportunity to go with different things and one of the things that was available was church history particularly revival history. So it’s been really exciting to do that. And I’m just every time I go to class you know some people call seminary cemetery but the Lord’s really used it to ignite my faith exposing me to all of these stories of what’s God’s done.

Sid: Well Larry we’re talking today about your brand new book “Breakthrough Faith.” If there has ever been a time that people need a breakthrough that time is now! Before we even get into the keys for breakthrough I want to take you back right at you were saved at 16 and you started going to a church that was known for worship, but something happened to you that has literally changed the whole direction of your life. You had an experience; a man with an experience with God is dangerous to the devil. What happened to you?

Larry: Well it’s very interesting because and I want to encourage all of the listeners right now that for something to be supernatural it doesn’t need to be spectacular it can be very subtle and that’s what happened to me. I was on a quest to know God, I was looking at different churches it just came out of the blue it is the Lord just awakening this inside of me. I’d got a lot of information about God but information and revelation are two different things. You can have information about somebody but never be intimate with them. And so I got information I went to Christian school but at 16 years old I got my driver’s license, I heard about this local church that had something called Contemporary Praise and Worship which I had no idea I was just used to organs and maybe just kind of the old style of music in a church. I went and the message was good but the music was a little strange people were lifting their hands and clapping and it was bazaar to me but one night it was July of 1999 in that church I was standing there in the midst of worship very suddenly but very powerfully I felt like a heat in my chest and then kind of a electricity in my fingers. This was not stuff I was imagining it was a physical thing again I didn’t fall over I didn’t have anything like that happen but it was so deep and so profound I knew it was God, I knew He was real, and the amazing thing Sid is I’m still living out of that one encounter. Again it was so subtle I still live out of that because it was so wow this God who’s out there, this God who’s real more of Him to be experienced.

Sid: You know if you ever read the Wuest translation of the Bible?

Larry: No.

Sid: It’s a fabulous one and John 17:3 says “This is eternal life namely that they might be having experiential knowledge of You.” And to me that’s the missing ingredient of 21st century Christianity. And yes you need to word, yes you need to be born from above but a man with an experience is as I said is dangerous to the devil. So you found yourself going to a church that was in what is called Word of Faith teaching. Now as you and I have discussed before this broadcast I started under a man by the name of Kenneth Hagen I didn’t go to his school and I read all of his literature and I got to know him personally. I found that short of someone that operates in the glory realm or in miracles say a Bill Johnson.

Larry: Yes.

Sid: That if someone is struggling with healing that is the single best teaching that I know, and so this is how I grew up. But then the same thing that happened to you happened to me and that is people took the pure Word of Faith message in having to do with healing but then opened it up to other arenas like finances and then went overboard way beyond the people like Kenneth Hagen took it. What was your experience in this word of faith church?

Larry: Well first off it’s funny Sid because people will ask me you know reading my book or just knowing me in the past they’ll say “Are you one of the those faith people?” And I just find that such a funny thing it’s like what’s the opposite “Do you want me to be a doubt person?” You know it’s just like the reality is the word of faith movement from what I’ve studied and what I understand. It was actually been born out of a Biblical principal and that is just stand on the word of God, confess the word. In fact I was thinking about this Sid yesterday just as we’d been talking about it you know what Lord “The word of faith movement has actually made a huge contribution to the Body of Christ because in so many spheres and so much Bible knowledge, but Word of Faith particularly under the influence of Brother Hagen really encouraged us to put the word to work and actually speak it out and actually just sitting there and reading it which is good but he really invited us that movement really encourage us to put it into action. So I was at a Word of Faith church and so I got a lot of good principals was exposed the believers authority the power in the name of Jesus. Oh gosh another great one was “God’s Creative Power” by Charles Capps but what ended up happening is that we were there 7 years this was not the church I had the encounter with God at by the way this was a different church. And the church where I had the encounter really throughout the years to this very day places an emphasis on the presence. The word of faith church had a lot of principals but the presence of God was not their pursuit it was basically putting good principals into formulas to getting what you wanted from God. I remember there was a teaching series “How to get what you want and need and desire from God.” And the reality is God wants to meet your need I want to encourage the listeners God wants to meet your needs. He wants to actually fulfill the desires of your heart He wants to do those things the problem is God is not a formula; He’s not like Santa Claus, He is our best friend. The Holy Spirit is our best friend; we love Jesus because of who He is. And in the book I really place an emphasis on the knowledge God intimately knowing God because when we divorce intimacy with God, the presence of God from good Biblical principals again we turn God a person God the person into a formula and that’s what we found, that’s what we saw after 7 years of being in that movement. And you know that I would say is the imbalance of the Word of Faith.

Sid: I agree totally with that but you also found some sort of when they went way much further than people like Hagen in having to do with finances.

Larry: Yes, yes I mean the entire message it was funny the tithe messages asked the church, not just this particular church but these particular churches would be like an hour long sometimes, no exaggeration. It doesn’t mean that always bad but it’s just the emphasis when the bent of the emphasis is that church, when the culture of that church is all about using God just to get money and wealth and stuff and using those principals with plug in to the God formula and okay I’m going to plug in my confession because I just want to get what I need from God that just rubbed us the wrong way. What happened with me, and this is what sort of created tension with me and the church, I and some others in the church we looked outside of that particular teaching for people that were teaching about the presence of God, about intimacy with God. And people out there like John Bevier there were people that I knew at the time who were encouraging people to draw near to God.

Sid: Now just out of curiosity did you find yourself because of the legalistic approach coming under condemnation?

Larry: Yeah, yes I found myself in that position and other people did because it got so crazy and sometimes where as if you said something for example if you said “You know what I’m having a pretty bad day today or wow man my back hurts” if you say that people would actually say “Don’t say that you’re going to curse your life.” Now again there’s a balance again they’re saying “I’m having a bad day and they’re saying that my back hurts but then they’re saying you know what I’m going to die at age 50.” And actually believing that and confessing that and pronouncing that and confessing that over your life I believe you can I mean Biblically you can curse your life when you actually agree with the report of the devil.” But man that was the legalism…

Sid: But then because of where they were at and because of your hunger for intimacy with God you went from one extreme to another extreme.

Larry: (Laughing)

Sid: Tell me what happened.

Larry: Well when we left that particular church after being there 7 years, I was there about 7 years. I wanted to run away from all of that I wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Which by the way you know one thing I believe the Lord wants to do Sid as we’re talking just as He is in me I believe that He wants to heal our sins in our hearts because it’s easy to get offended by that stuff it is. It’s easy to get offended in situation where maybe you or a loved one were praying for healing or praying for a breakthrough and somebody said something real bad to you like “Wow you didn’t get healed you didn’t have enough faith or you didn’t make the right confession.” I believe Sid even as we’re talking about this the Holy Spirit is touching people and just bringing restoration and healing to ascend. He’s actually causing them to remember these things just simply repent for them and I believe the Lord wants to bring a Biblical balance to this and help people to walk in breakthrough. Because Sid the opposite I think, it was even I don’t know if it was just as bad or might have been worst, is that I ran away from all of that stuff almost running away from the Charismatic movement entirely I couldn’t. I couldn’t run away from the presence because I had been so profoundly impacted. So I was running away from the word of faith stuff anytime I heard anybody talk about it use any of that language there was a great offense or anger in my heart. And then what happened is we found ourselves in churches that basically they had faith for when you got to heaven you know “Well if God sovereignty wants to heal you maybe or if He sovereignty wants to move now that’s great but we’re holding out for heaven one day we’ll believe that we’ll be healed and whole and everything and all of our problems will be solved when we get to heaven one day.” But there was not a lot of hope for right now for today. We were in that for a couple of years and it was the exact opposite and what we noticed is I believed that a lot of people in that culture end up needlessly dealing with the devil. I mean needlessly walking in sickness and defeat and just being condemned and overwhelmed. So yeah that was the other opposite it was great theological teaching that we go about the cross and I am grateful yeah forever grateful, but when it came to walking in faith for now for now to see victory now it was quite the opposite.

Sid: And today when you prayed out to God and you said “Okay I feel like a billiard ball I mean I’m going this direction and I’m going that direction. You prayed to God “What is the truth.”

Larry: Yeah.

Sid: What did God begin to reveal to you?

Larry: Well you know what happened He immediately brought me to the word, and I would encourage the listeners that’s the best place to go because I was just doing for…I was doing a study of healing throughout the New Testament throughout the gospels just different healing stories. And I got to one and I read it and heard it before and heard message about it but man it really ignited something inside of me tenacity. And it was Mark chapter 2 where you have these 4 men who carry their paralyzed friend I mean the guy is completely paralyzed paraplegic cannot move they’re carrying him on a stretcher they bring him to Jesus they want to bring him to Jesus. But what happened is they get to the house where Jesus is and they can’t get in they can’t get in because of the crowd there’s this obstacle there’s opposition and my fear is that today that would happen and what would happen as a result of that we have a need, we bring it to Jesus we experience opposition and because there is an obstacle and we don’t immediately see a breakthrough the sad thing is a lot of people actually change theology about God because of what they don’t see. They bring their need to God, they pray, they cry out and they don’t immediately see something happen so they conclude “Well I guess God doesn’t heal, I guess God doesn’t want to do this and well we’ll just let God’s sovereign will be the sovereign will whatever happens happens.” I’d be okay if these 4 guys ended up making a different decision turning around going home and concluding to themselves “You know what I guess it’s not God’s will to heal our friend today.”But they did not do that and that just got inside of me Sid I saw what they did they were tenacious they were relentless they actually carried the parallelized up to the roof broke the ceiling, lowered him down to Jesus. And Jesus was not upset about this I think about this “What if this happened in churches today?” And “We don’t even want to think about this oh the service is being interrupted all of this is being is going on.” But if anybody, if anybody should not have been interrupted it should have been Jesus but Jesus did not get upset, He did not get bothered. He said “He saw their faith” and He said “Son your sins are forgiven.” And then as a result he healed the man, but we know what happened to know the outcome but what got me was the audacious relentless attitude of these 4 friends they did not accept the obstacle instead the obstacle caused them to press into God a little further and as a result they got their breakthrough. I’m wondering today for those of you guys that are listening to us if maybe your breakthrough I’m believing that maybe your breakthrough might just be on the other side of perseverance. And I’m praying that the Spirit of God would just give you a supernatural fresh anointing of perseverance and strength to contend for your breakthrough.

Sid: I believe people and that is so key people quit just before the victory. But let’s face it we do have an adversary. For instance I…you know what gets me so upset Larry is when believers real believers say “Well everything that happens to me in my life is God’s will.” What would you say?

Larry: I would say “You know what look at Mark Chapter 2 that’s just one example, one example.” I would say “Look at the different gospel accounts.” We need to go back to the gospels we need to be challenged by how Jesus responded because so many times whether it’s this paralyzed may being lowered through the ceiling, whether it’s blind Bartimaeus crying out, whether it was the woman with the issue of blood. This woman was nonstop blood flow 12 years pressing through a crowd to get to Jesus. These people actually did not allow there circumstance to be final; they did not believe that their circumstance and situation was superior to the word of God. They didn’t do so many people today do and it’s kind of a lazy theology they just say “You know what it happening so I default that it must be God’s will.” These people had something happening to them but they did not conclude that it was God’s will they actually thought that God’s will was actually something very different and they pressed in to receive it. And that’s why we have these stories in the Bible in the gospel they pressed in and they got the miracle, it’s amazing.

Sid: Now your brand new book “Breakthrough Faith” you wrote it for 3 groups of people who are they?

Larry: Well I wrote it first of all for people who are hungry, for people who want more of God and who want to actually see a breakthrough lifestyle become normal for them. Because that’s what God wants to do He wants to release something that is sustainable. Sustain not just a touch, not just an encounter those things are great but He wants this lifestyle to be sustained. So I believe…

Sid: That really is your passion of your life.

Larry: Yeah.

Sid: To have greater and greater hunger and intimacy with the God, that should be everyone’s passion.

Larry: Yes absolutely because here’s the thing there’s no limit to how much of Him we can experience. In Isaiah 9:10 “And the increase of His government there will be no end.” There is so much that He wants to release into the earth and He releases it into the earth through His people His kingdom. Where’s His kingdom? The kingdom inside of us so my desire is first that yeah this book would stir up those that are already hungry for God.

Sid: Alright the 2nd people group.

Larry: (Laughing) And really the second group of people would be people who have been offended or people who have had false…exposure to the false faith to the incorrect faith. Whether it was extreme word of faith teaching or the cardinal gospel of their spirit, people who are just about ready to give up on the what they call “All that faith stuff.” My prayer and my earnest desire is that not only would this encourage faith people people that are already believing for this but people who have no exposure to this. Sid that’s why I went to seminary that’s why I went I don’t believe it’s necessary to teach the gospel, to teach the word, I don’t think it’s imperative but I went because I want to do my best to steward these things and equip people especially those who are maybe not walking in a supernatural lifestyle I want to do what I can to bring a legitimacy to that. Sid that’s my desire through this book, through my own personal experiences with both sides and my best theological understanding of the Bible to help people who have just misconceptions and confusion about faith to actually start walking in it and get into and actually get hungry for it.

Sid: And of course the biggest need are those that feel that they’ve done everything they’ve been taught to do and they were supposed to be healed and they weren’t and they’re in a hopeless state you need breakthrough faith. This is what I can promise you you’re going to have a breakthrough of epic proportions this is what I’m going to promise you you will have a breakthrough of epic proportions. I believe that we had 2 of our staff senior producer types that read this book and they understood all about Word of Faith and healing and they said “What a breath of fresh air I feel like I’m now encouraged, I now have this breakthrough faith….When we come back I’ve got to hear the vision you had of the ancient rusty gates that are part of the entire breakthrough.

Days of Elijah Celebration

Sid: It’s not an accident that right after we finished our Days of Elijah Celebration in St. Simons Island, Georgia, and for those that did not know about it we had an intercessors conference. We had close to 200 intercessors that came in and prayed 2 days on the same grounds where the conference was going to be. And literally we had heaven on earth.

But almost simultaneous to the conference I want to read you an account from the Boston Globe:

The rocks have been lifted all over Europe and the snakes of Jew hatred are slithering free.

In Belgium thugs beat up the Chief Rabbi kicking him in the face and calling him a dirty Jew. Two synagogues in Brussels were firebombed, a third was sprayed with automatic weapons fire.

In Britain, the cover of the New Statesman, a left wing magazine depicted a large star of David stabbing the Union Jack. Oxford Professor Tom Paulin, a noted poet, told an Egyptian interviewer that “American Jews who move to the West Bank in Gaza should be shot dead.” A Jewish Yeshiva student reading the Psalms was stabbed 27 times on a London bus. Anti-Semitism wrote a columnist in The Spectator “has become respectable at London dinner tables.” She quoted one member of the House of Lords quote “The Jews have been asking for it and now thank God we can say what we think at last.”

In Italy, the daily paper published a Page 1 cartoon: A tank emblazoned with a Jewish Star points it’s gun at the baby Jesus who pleads “Surely they don’t want to kill me again.”

In Germany, a rabbinical student was beaten up in downtown Berlin and a grenade was thrown into a Jewish cemetery. Thousands of neo-Nazis held a rally marching near a synagogue on a Jewish Sabbath. Graffiti appeared on a synagogue in a western town of Herford “Six million were not enough.”

In Ukraine skinheads attack Jewish worshippers and smashed the windows of Kiev synagogue. Ukrainian police denied the attack was anti-Jewish.

In Greece, Jewish graves were desecrated in Ioannina and vandals hurled paint in the Holocaust memorial in Salonica.

In Holland, an anti-Israel demonstration featured swastikas, photos of Hitler and chants of “Sieg Heil” and “Jews into the sea.”

But nowhere has the flames of anti-Semitism burn more ferociously than in France. In Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set on fire.In Montpellier, the Jewish center was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and Marseille. So was a Jewish School in Creteil. A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with Molotov cocktails.

In Bondy 15 men beat-up members of a Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The bus that takes Jewish children to school had been attacked 3 times in the last 14 months. According to the police metropolitan Paris has seen 10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents per day since Easter. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been defaced with slogans proclaiming “Jews to the gas chambers” and “Death to the Jews.”

I mean it goes on and on. It seems to me that a lot of people think the holocaust was ancient history, but you can go back all through history and see this Jew hatred. Even today I’m reading to you these are current events going on worldwide. Why is the Jew so hated? It’s because the church has yet to understand what the devil understands. That when the Jewish people are grafted back into the Body the full Body of Messiah Jew and Gentile become that One New Man and new life.

Let me put it this way, in Amos the 9th chapter it talks about restoring or raising up the tabernacle of David. But the word tabernacle in the Hebrew could also be translated family of David. And so what Amos is saying in the ninth chapter the 11th verse is “When the Tabernacle, or the family of David, or the Jewish people, is restored it says the rest of the Gentiles who are called by my name will come in.” It goes on to say that “When the family of David is restored a great revival will occur among the Gentiles,” and it says according to what I read here in the 13th verse the greatest revival in history. It says “Behold the days are coming says the Lord when the plowman shall overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes and him who sows seeds.” In other words the fruit will grow so fast it can’t even be harvested and that’s what we’re about ready to have.

But let me explain the principal on how this works, why Amos says “When the family of David is restored to the Body of Messiah it’s sort of like Genesis 12:3 God says “I’ll bless those who bless the Jewish people and I’ll curse those who curse them.” Well this principal is true throughout all of scripture and it’s found with the Ark of the Covenant. Wherever the Ark of the Covenant went, which represents the Jewish people, based on our attitude towards of the Ark of the Covenant was tremendous blessings or tremendous coursings. For instance in 1st Samuel the 5th verse it says that the Philistines captured the Ark of the Covenant. What happened? For 7 months they had the worst tumors and sores until they got rid of it.

Then in 2nd Samuel the 6th chapter the 11th verse we find out that the Ark of the Covenant rested at the home of Obed Edom. And what happened? His entire house was blessed, so based on your attitude to the Jewish people, and this was what Paul was talking about in the 11th chapter of Romans he said “If it was a blessing the Jewish people rejected their Messiah how much greater blessing when they receive their Messiah it will literally cause life from the dead.”

So this is why we had our Days of Elijah Conference which comes from Malachi the 3rd chapter. And Malachi says…well let us pick up in the 4th chapter the 5th verse, “Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and the dreadful day of the Lord.” Now what is Elijah going to do? Well we know Elijah was a man who took on the prophets of Baal, took on the false gods and we know that John the Baptist had the Spirit of Elijah on him and what did he do? Nothing more than call Israel to repent so that there could be a great revival with the coming of the Lord.

So what is the spirit of Elijah that will come on the church in the last days going to do? The 6th verse tells us “He will turn the hearts of the Fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers.” Interesting doesn’t say mothers it says fathers.

According to the 9th chapter the 1st verse of the book of Romans Paul says “The Fathers are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” So what is Malachi saying? Of course he’s talking about a restoration of fathers and children in the literal, but he’s also talking about that great same spiritual principal that Paul talks about when the hearts of the fathers, the Jewish people are knit and returned to hearts of the children if the fathers are the Jewish people the children then are the Christians. So the hearts of the Christians it says if this doesn’t happen they’ll be a great curse. But guess what, if it does happen they’ll be a great blessing.

I wish you had been there at that conference The Days of Elijah because there was the most magnificent dancing and processional and we had literally a replica of the Western Wall and the Holy of Holies.

One 17 year old girl wrote in that attended the conference and she said “I saw 2 rows of angels; one was sitting on the edges of the tent meeting, the other row was behind them and they were dancing and singing while we were praising. Then she goes on to say “I saw an angels in the congregation one very large angel standing behind the worship leader the angel was large enough to have his hands over the worship leaders head; when we started singing the song it was like heaven paused to listen as all of the angels in the room stopped in the middle of what they were doing and stood awestruck as they listened.”

Now I could go…she just saw so many things going on in the angelic in the invisible realm. I wish I had seen this all; I’ll tell you what I sat under such an outpouring of God’s Spirit. Those that were there had reports of “I had no great heart for the Jewish people and Israel but after seeing this I understand why it’s so important to God for Jews and Gentiles to become One New Man in Jesus. It’s so important for Christians to stand up for the Jew in Israel.”