Our Guests John and Lisa Bevere


SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guests, best-selling authors John and Lisa Bevere, unmasked. What do I mean by that? They were sabotaged when they got married. There is no way in the world their marriage should have survived and they have decided if they will tell people what happened to them it will give hope. But what happened to them wasn’t natural. What happened to them that gave them a marriage from Heaven was supernatural. Hello. Look, I cannot believe what I read in the newspaper. The institution of marriage is under assault. John Bevere, what’s going on and what’s behind what’s going on? What is the reason that the institution of marriage is under such assault?

JOHN: Marriage was authored, created, designed up by God himself. Satan hates anything that’s of God. The spirit of this world wants to destroy marriage and is on an active path to do it. And this is why Lisa and I decided to start speaking on marriage because we know now not only are marriages under attack, and they are under attack, but the very institution as you just said is being assaulted. And so we need to voice out what God says about marriage because it is so valuable.

SID: You know, John looks like he’s kind of meek. But would you believe on his first date with Lisa he gets her saved, he gets her speaking in tongues filled with the Spirit, and he gets her healed of a life-threatening disease, on the first date. I guess I’d better find out what happened on the second. No, I’m just teasing. Well I’ll tell you what happened. He marries Lisa. Now you’ve heard the saying, opposites attract, but this is ridiculous. Lisa, what was your background?

LISA: Okay. So I’m half Sicilian, Apache Indian, French and English. My grandmother had been married four times.

JOHN: And I’m fortunate to be alive.

LISA: Yes. My grandmother had been married four times. My parents were married, divorced, remarried, divorced. My dad was an alcoholic. I came from dysfunction way before it was popular. We were doing it way before the Kardashians. And basically, you know, John and I, we just came together. I had no good thing. I brought adultery, I brought alcoholism, I brought dysfunction and he brought all the good, and I brought all of the bad. I remember when he introduced me to his mom, his mom was like, “Wait a minute, we have never had divorce in our family before.” And I was like, that’s not my name. But it was really a scary thing when I came in. But you know, we decided, Sid, God wasn’t interested.

SID: You got me laughing so much, I don’t know what to say.

LISA: Well we decided it wasn’t about John’s good and my bad. It was about holy. And the truth is God wants to do a new thing with couples. And I brought nothing to the table, and we wanted to do our marriage different, but we didn’t know how to do it different. And I personally had a vision about three months into my marriage, and it was the vision of a perfect man, and this man looked like my husband, but he did not act like my husband. And so I decided my job was to change my husband from the man he was to the man he could be if he would work with me, but John had a vision of his own.

SID: But Lisa, not one woman listening to you understands.


SID: No woman wants to change her husband.

LISA: None of us do.

SID: Okay, that’s what she brought in.

LISA: Yeah.

SID: Now what did you bring in?

JOHN: Well I brought in, I mean, my family, my mom and dad are amazing. They married 66 years. My dad just went home to be with the Lord this year. But what I brought in was a lot of insecurity. I was the only boy of six children. So I was the chosen one, my son, my son, according to my mother. So a lot of—

SID: I thought that was just Jewish men.

LISA: No, it’s Italians, too.

JOHN: So a lot of selfishness and a lot of temper, a lot of arguing, a lot of this is my way or the highway. And we clashed like the Titans. I mean, it was like WWF wrestling the first couple of years of our marriage. It was horrific. And we really realized all of a sudden, hey wait a minute, this happily ever after just doesn’t happen. And so, you know, we started, Lisa and I started realizing in order to have a good marriage you have to work to have a good marriage.

SID: But I have to ask you this question, Lisa. Why the dirty laundry? Why are you doing this?

LISA: Well you know, I think too many people feel isolated. They feel hopeless. So John and I said, you know what, we’re going to open up our lives. Because we sit in conferences and we would hear the pastors say, “my wife and I have never had a fight” and I’d be like, for the love of Jesus, we’ve never not fought. I mean, we decided, what in the world? So we just did not know how to do it correctly. And so we were like, all right, people are going to have different differences and we need to be constructive with this. Plus John and I have a unique dynamic that other people didn’t have. We both are strong personalities. We both have voices. It isn’t I’m just supportive of him and he’s not there or he’s just supportive of me. But couples coming up, they want to do it together, Sid. I think that we are created to do it together. And it would have been easier if we did it separately. So we said, let’s just put it all out there. Let’s talk about our struggles in the past with abuse, let’s talk about our struggles with control, let’s talk about our struggles with fear, let’s talk about what we’ve regretted and what we’ve learned. We’ve been married for 33 years. That’s a long time. And so we’ve learned a lot of lessons that we don’t think other people need to learn the hard way.

SID: John, you were addicted to pornography before you got married.

JOHN: Yep.

SID: And before it was almost commonplace. Right now, the statistics are overwhelming. Tell me a few of them.

JOHN: Well it started at age 11. And then when I married Lisa, I thought, gosh, when I get married to this beautiful woman it will all go away. Well it certainly didn’t. And so it was a big battle.

SID: I’ll tell you what, hold that thought. I want to find out how you got supernaturally, I mean, he thought if he just would get married to a beautiful woman, he wouldn’t be interested in pornography. He didn’t know that that’s one of the strongest addictions on the planet. When we come back I want to find out how they supernaturally went from physical abuse with each other, verbal abuse, her taking off her engagement ring. I mean, and to have the marriage they have today, and I say there is tikvah, that’s a Hebrew word, there is hope. We’ll be right back.

Our Guest Pastor Don Nordin


SID: Talk about audacity, nerve, boldness, chutzpah, this doctor, he’s got it all. He has got audacity. He’s in the middle of a surgery. Tell me about Dee Sapp.

DON: Dee Sapp had been diagnosed with colon cancer and had to have emergency surgery. And Dr. Remedios was doing the surgery, and he took out three feet of her colon. And the Lord spoke to him and said to stretch the rest of the colon and to attach it. This had never been done before. And he could have lost his license. She could have lost her life. But he knew the Lord spoke to him and he did that. And the miracle is a creative miracle because after a period of time when she was examined, not only did everything work properly, but that colon had grown back to the normal six feet of colon.

SID: You know what is so amazing to me? I called my own doctor and I said, “Doctor, if someone had three feet of colon cut out, one year later, how much of it would have grown back?” He said, “None, impossible.” That’s what he said to me, impossible. But God says to you, “All things are possible to those who believe.” And you’re part of the all. Let me read Dr. Remedios’ quote to you right now. “There is no question about it. I could feel the tangible presence of God in the operating room. It doesn’t matter where you are, what your circumstance, there’s nothing too difficult for God. The tests showed the three feet of colon that I cut out was back. This is a miracle of God.” I love it when medical doctors use such terms of miracle, beyond human expectation, miraculous. That is so great. Another member of your congregation, just everything is going fine. Then what happened to him?

DON: He had a motorcycle accident. In fact, when he got the hospital, the doctors termed his condition as hopeless. I was on my way to the hospital and the Lord spoke to me and said, “When you get there, you tell Clint and his family that he will recover all.”

SID: Wait a second now, you’re putting your reputation on the line that you know that. I mean, the doctor said, hopeless. When a doctor says that, how do you have the chutzpah, the audacity to say what you did?

DON: Well on my way to the hospital, I didn’t know what his condition was.

SID: That helped.

DON: And the Lord spoke this to me and I was excited about getting there and sharing a word from the Lord with them. And when I walked into the room and saw his condition, I’m like, oh.

SID: Among other things, he was in a coma.

DON: He was in a coma, yes. And but we prayed and I told them, I said, “The Lord told me to tell you that Clint will doubtless recover all.” And today, Clint is back on his job. He is completely normal. He has recovered all. In fact, I would say that I like this Clint better than the other Clint, because he has I feel like a more outgoing personality, and God has just done an amazing, amazing thing in his life.

SID: And again, you see these papers here? These are all the medical reports from doctors on this Clinton Mayfield. God is not a respecter of persons, which means if he’ll do it for one, he’ll do it for all. I love the statement God gave you. I want you to hear this. I want this to soak in, inside of you. God told Pastor Don, “If you can convince them, I will do the work.”

Quick nugget on faith.

DON: Well I just think that people believe that if they’re desperate God will hear them. God doesn’t respond to desperation. He responds to audacious prayer and faith.

SID: I want you to have the most audacious faith you have ever, ever had. Read the Word, believe it’s God’s love letter to and go for the gold.

SID: The audacity of prayer, I love the word “audacity,” it’s boldness, it’s nerve. Once you realize that God is not a respecter of persons, and I’m going to tell you, these four CDs and the book is going to just cause you to believe. And that’s what God told Don Nordin, “If you can get the people to believe, I will do what I say.” Are you ready for God to do what he says in your life? I am.

Sid Roth


Sid:  Many years ago I met a woman her name is Penny. She speaks for the rights of the unborn children in the womb that are being murdered through abortion. And she was speaking at a rally and an elderly man walked up to her and said “Can I tell you a story and she said “Sure.” And he said “When I was a young boy Hitler was in power and I would go to church every Sunday and our church was located right next to train tracks. Every Sunday sure enough the train would go by and then we began to hear some very strange things happening from the train; they were screaming and saying ‘Help! Help! Help!’ and you know what the pastor told us? ‘Sing a little louder,’ they stuffed their ears they did not want to hear that the Jews were going to be destroyed. And so I’ve lived with that memory all of these years; those were the trains taking the Jews to the gas chambers to be killed; I think about it every night and then I think about the movie Schindler’s List did you see that? Did you remember the line that Oscar Schindler said “I could have gotten one more person and I didn’t, and I didn’t.”

I have to tell you that’s the way I feel right now and that’s the way that I want you to feel and that’s the way the heart of God feels right now.  I have a vision and my vision is a Jewish express and we are at the time of the second banquet right now where the Jews are ready to be saved just like Esther went to the second banquet with the King and requested that the Jews be saved. The tracks are being laid all over the world this moment but it’s a race for this Jewish express this Jewish express is going to be filled with Jewish people that have just accepted Jesus.  This train is going all over the world because the Jews have been spread to 4 corners of the earth and every Jewish person that gets on will be one that is saved. And your investment is going to buy tickets for Jewish people to board the Jewish express.

I’m going to tell you something else you are about ready to bump into what I’ve been walking in for the last several years it’s called ridiculous Esther favor.  Why are you going to walk in this ridiculous favor? Read it in Esther 10 verse 3 in the New American Standard version it says:

“For Mordecai the Jew was second only to King Ahasuerus and great among the Jews (Great among the Jews) and in favor with his many kinsman. (And then it tells us why)  He sought the good of his people.”

So I say to you what is the maximum good that you can do for a Jewish person? Is it humanitarian work?  Yes, that will help in this life and good will bless you for it. Is it praying for the Jewish people? Yes that will help you in this life and God will bless it for you. Or is it what God says Proverbs 11:30:

“He who wins souls is wise.”

The window of the set time to favor Zion or the second banquet it now.  Proverbs 10:5 says:

“He who gathers in summer is a son who acts wisely but he who sleeps in harvest is a son who acts shamefully.”

You know the major reason the devil is trying to kill all of the Jewish people right now? Because he knows about Isaiah 27:6, the King James, the Jewish Evangelists are about ready to fill the earth with fruit, this is God:

“God shall cause them that cause of Jacob to take root and Israel shall blossom and bud and fill the face of the world with fruit.”

If that doesn’t get you excited I don’t know what does.  As the Jewish people fill the world with fruit remember the call of the Jew is to reach the Gentile and we did a pretty good job 2000 years ago but we didn’t do the complete job. The job of the Gentile is to provoke the Jew to jealousy to reach the Jew. And I have to tell you when you give money to our ministry it’s an investment, it’s an investment in souls.  And we give you tools, tools so that you can be all that God’s called you to be. Tools so that you can operate in the supernatural.  Why, the Bible says “The Jew requires a sign,” the Bible says “Esther you’ve been called to the Kingdom for such a time as this.”  It says “This is the set time to favor Zion.” And I’m going to tell you something else Jewish people are so hungry for the supernatural the devil is like a Pied Piper in the New Age and the occult and they’re going into it in droves. But the spiritual scales are removed the judgment is finished we are at the fullness of the Gentile age Jesus is coming back soon…and any profits we make from you ordering the book “Sooner Than You Think” and the CD on the book of Esther….

I’m reminded, it’s kind of a funny story, but  I’m reminded of a… I did a New Age Festival in Israel and it really went bad I mean it really went bad. I had someone who was heckling me in the front row and I felt I did a bad job and so it had been raining and it was a standing in the mud and a couple of people were swimming in the nude in the water behind us (chuckling), you know it was a real New Age Festival and then there were a few other things I won’t talk about.  But I went home and felt miserable and someone said “You remember the New Age Festival you did Sid?” And I said “Yeah I remember.” And they said “Well one of the leading Messianic Jewish Evangelist got saved at that festival.” I had no idea, I have no idea, almost 5 million of the books “They Thought for Themselves” have been distributed to Jewish people throughout the world but we’re coming into the finest hour because now the spiritual scales are being removed.

So when you get the book “Sooner Than You Think” you’re going to be blessed and I’ll tell you why the best teachers of end-times it’s called subtitled, “The Prophetic Guide to the End Times” I’ve put into this book. And when you read this entire book you will not lose your faith when things don’t happen exactly the way it’s been told to you. Because the truth is nobody totally understands it but all the ingredients is in this book, so I can’t wait to get this into your hands.

Now I want to tell you about the end time Psalm to Esther the Church Psalm 91.  And I am going to include a bookmark with every book that you receive. And this bookmark is Psalm 91 personalized from the Living Bible. I’m going to tell you something I don’t care what happens if you say and believe this Psalm out loud every day this is what God promises.  “I live…” and personalize it that’s what I’ve done and you’ll be able to take this bookmark and read it out loud every day for yourself and your family.

“I live in the shelter of the most high; I find rest in Your shadow; this I declare about You. You alone are my refuge, my place of safety, You are my God and I trust You for You will rescue me from every trap and protect me from every deadly disease.  You will cover me with Your feathers; You will shelter me with Your wings; Your faithful promises are my armor and protection. I’m not afraid of the terrors of the night, nor the arrow that flies in the day; I do not dread the disease that stalks in darkness nor the disease that strikes at midday.  Though a thousand fall at my side though 10,000 are dying around me these evils will not even touch me. As I open my eyes I see how the wicked are punished.  No evil will conquer me, no plague (And we’re talking about these end-time diseases and everything) no plague will come near my home for you will order Your angels to protect me wherever I go. (Do you know there is a whole unit in a war in a combat zone and every member of the unit said this prayer out loud and not one was injured but all around them people were injured?) For you will order your angels to protect me wherever I go; they will hold me up with their hands so that I will not even hurt my foot on a stone. I will trample upon lions and cobras; I will crush fierce lions and serpents under my feet. You declare that You will rescue me because You love me.  Your protect me because I trust in Your name; when I call on You You will answer you will be with me in trouble; You will rescue me and honor me; You will award me with a long life. And I thank You for Your salvation.”

And now I’m going to pray a supernatural prayer over you. This is a prayer that I’ve prayed over many people and God has changed their heart it is called “The Esther Anointing.”  Are you ready to receive it?  I can tell you the presence of God is trembling throughout my body right now.

I pray in Yeshua’s name that every one that is opening their heart right now to receive will receive the Esther anointing. They will realize they’ve been called to the Kingdom for such a time as this.  I pray You will give them Your heart, Your compassion for their Jewish neighbors and Jewish doctors and Jewish merchants and Jewish schoolmates and Jewish business associates.

I pray Father God that Jewish people will walk up to them and say “I feel something wonderful radiating from you what is that? Why do you love Jewish people so much?”

I pray in Yeshua’s name that everyone that has ever something anti-Jewish, anti-Semitic would repent right now and tell God You’re sorry. Ask Jesus to forgive you, I pray Father God that everyone that receives this anointing will take part in filling up the Jewish Express. We will never listen again to the train going to the gas chamber screaming for mercy because Father God that Jewish Express is ready now this is the time of the second banquet, this is the fullness of the Gentile Age.  Jewish people are going to won to the Lord and these Jewish people will be like modern day Paul the Apostles which will go to the 4 corners and do a quick work, do a fast work quickly in Jesus name I pray – Amen.

And people are being healed right now, people…someone has a finger and it hurts you when you bend it maybe it’s arthritis maybe you fell and hurt it  but you are being healed in Jesus name.  Backs and necks are being healed; pain of all kind is leaving. Someone with a tennis elbow you’re being healed right now. The backs it’s so strong just test your back and your neck you’ll see that pain is totally gone. Hips are being repaired right now; knees are being repaired right now. Eyes are being healed, I even see an oriental person you can take it even if you’re not oriental but as I’m touching your eyes they’re being healed in Jesus name.

Sid Roth


Sid: I’m so excited Mishpocha because I’ve got finally after almost a year a copy of my latest book “The Last Lap” subtitled “The Emergence of the One New Man.” A lot of people wonder where I got the subtitle the One New Man. Well you don’t have to wonder anymore it’s in the atmosphere, it’s happening, people are talking about this having nothing to do with my book, nothing to do with my teaching. They’re talking about it all over the world. I believe it’s a foretaste of the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history.

Everyone is looking about the problems that are going on in the United States and in the world. Because we’re in a time in which nothing will ever be the same, but we’re in a time in God in which nothing will ever be the same. We’re going to see the greatest revival, the greatest outpouring of God’s Spirit in history.

Well Ephesians chapter 2 verse 14 – 16 explains the One New Man. It’s been a long time coming I’m sure when Paul wrote to the Ephesians he had no idea it would take so long. It says in the 2nd chapter the 14th verse “For He Himself is our peace who has made both one.” Who’s both? The Jew and the Gentile, “has made both Jew and Gentile one and has broken down the middle wall of separation.” So why did Yeshua, that’s Hebrew for Jesus, come? To break down a separation between Jews and Gentiles and this is how He did it in the 15th verse, “Having abolished in His flesh enmity that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances so as to create in Himself one new man,” that’s the One New Man. Create in who? Himself. Who’s Himself? Yeshua. “To create in Himself one new man from the two thus making peace.” Do you know what the Hebrew word for peace is? Shalom. “Thus making completeness.” That’s why Messiah came He came to establish Mishpocha, He came to establish family to make Jews and Gentiles One New Man. The Jew needs the Gentile, the Gentile needs the Jew otherwise no shalom. What is shalom? Completeness, there’ll only be completeness when the spiritual eyes come off of Jewish people and they’re grafted back into the church.

16th verse, “That He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross thereby putting to death the enmity,” and the word enmity means a positive hatred. See at the time Paul wrote this there was a hatred between Jews and Christians. The Messiah came to break this wall of separation down just as He came to… you know the curtain between the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place when Yeshua died the veil was rent in two. He wants to rent that in two so there can be intimacy with God. There’s a connection between Jewish people being grafted into the church, and intimacy with God. There’s a connection with the spiritual scales coming off of the eyes of the Jewish people and the connection the intimacy with God.

It says in Ephesians in the 2nd chapter the 14th verse “That Messiah came to break down this wall of separation.” Well there was a big wall of separation back then. There was no way a Gentile was going to fellowship with a Jew and Jew was going fellowship with a Gentile. It would take a great miracle and a great miracle occurred and the wall of separation was broken down, but today we have even a greater wall of separation. I mean a Jewish person looks at a Christian and says “I don’t see anything Jewish in your religion. As a matter of fact, I like mine better than yours.” A Gentile Christian looks at a Jew and says “I don’t see anything Christian about your religion. As a matter of fact, I like my religion better than yours.” There’s a bigger wall of separation today than there was 2000 years ago. That’s what Jesus came for.

Now to really understand the Jewish connection you have to turn to the book of Romans the 11th chapter. I’m going to read some selected passages from the 11th chapter. Paul says “I say then has God cast away His people? Certainly not.” Another translation says “Oh God forbid,” and then he says, 7th verse, “What then Israel has not obtained what it seeks but the elect have obtained it and the rest were blinded.”  11th verse “I say then, have they (the Jewish people) stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not but through their fall to provoke them to jealousy salvation has come to the Gentile.”

So first God says the Gentile has had a revelation of the Messiah, has had their sins washed away, has been grafted in to the Jewish olive tree for a purpose. What is the purpose? Many Christians are running up to prophets and saying “Tell me what my purpose is.” God is saying to you right now, why would you go to a flaky prophet when you won’t even follow what My word says? Romans 11:11 says “But through their fall to provoke the Jewish people to jealousy salvation has come to the Gentile.” So if you’re non-Jewish and you’re a believer in Jesus and you say “What is my call?” God is saying in Romans 11:11 “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jewish people to jealousy.” Now here’s the reason why, and maybe you never understood it. You know we don’t even have to understand it if God say to do it we’ve got to do it, but there’s a reason and God gives a reason in the 12th verse of Romans 11. “Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentile, how much more their fullness?” Was it a rich blessing that you came to know the Messiah coming from a non-Jewish background? Of course it was, but it says there’s something even greater coming to the church with their fullness.

The 15th verse, “For if they’re being cast away (and catch this now), for if the Jewish people being cast away is the reconciling of the world.” (Laughing) And it was now that Gentiles could be saved, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? What happens when a dead person comes to life, the resurrected? Do you realize what kind of power it takes for resurrection? The same spirit that rose Messiah Yeshua from the dead is living with us. There will be release, this is what God’s word is saying, there will be a release of resurrection power, life from the dead power. The power of God that we read about in the Bible, the power of God that we dream about, the power of God we believe, but the power of God we haven’t seen.

Well the word of God says when that wall of separation comes down, When Gentiles start fulfilling their God ordained destiny of provoking Jewish people to jealousy. If it was a rich blessing that the Jewish people rejected their Messiah, how much greater blessing when they receive their Messiah because it will cause a miracle to occur. See why the devil is trying so hard in the supernatural realm to separate, put up a wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles. But Messiah came yeah the set time, the set time to favor Zion has come. This is God’s set time. Just as the secular commentators are saying nothing will ever be the same again. In the spirit nothing will ever be the same again because I can tell you based on the prophetic word of God, based on what’s going on in current events we are in the set time to favor Zion. Before judgment comes there’s always a warning but can you see why the stakes are so high? Because there will be such a release of the supernatural power of God for evangelism, and I’ll be speaking on that tomorrow, such a release.

You can go to most churches, let’s face it we’ve become so religious. I mean we’re just like the game of telephone. Did you ever play it as a kid? One person whispers to another person who whispers to another the 3rd, and the 4th, and the 5th by the time it comes to the 6th person it’s so different than what the first statement of fact was it’s just over time.

That’s called (singing) tradition, we Jewish people have a lot of it then I became a believer in the Messiah and got into the church and I found that we have something called (singing) tradition. It’s a people problem and this (singing) tradition gets in the way, in the way of the power of the living God.

But we’re at a set time to favor Zion, we’re at a time that we’re going to see life from the dead resurrection power enter the church. There is a battle going on but the battle is not ours. God says “Stand still and watch the salvation of God.” I believe this is the set time for my latest book “The Last Lap,” subtitled “The Emergence of the One New Man.” This is the set time, I mean God says that we’re to pray that His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. I believe that this book is His will.

Are you feeling a little bored, that’s the word, bored with normal religious Christianity? Have you felt inside there’s got to be something more? Have you wondered why there’s so few miracles going on in churches in the United States? Have you had questions about how Christianity has deviated from Biblical patterns? Have you wondered about the Shabbat, that’s Hebrew for Sabbath? Is it Saturday, is it Sunday? How has it changed? Does it have anything to do with salvation? Does have anything to do with righteousness? Have you wondered why Jews distrust Christians? You’re probably not aware of something called the “Rabbinic Conspiracy.”

Many Christians are confused on who is Israel. You wonder what the glorious church, I mean the book of Ephesians talks about a church so filled with the glory of God. What this glorious church is going to look like? What about Messianic Judaism? What about Gentile Christianity what is their future? What is going to be the catalyst to release the greatest and last revival on planet earth?

Our Guest Jonathan Maracle

jonathan maracle

Sid: I have on the telephone a member of the First Nations. He is from the Mohawk Tribe the Tyendinaga Territory of Ontario, Canada. Jonathan Maracle I was talking on yesterday’s broadcast on February 1999 there was a transfer of anointing from your dad to yourself. Your father walked in a tremendous miracle anointing. And I don’t know all of this anointing includes but I do know that when you speak people begin weeping. Why is that?

Jonathan:  I believe that would be the passion that God has given me to see lives healed and changed. Some of the greatest healings that we’ve seen has been people who have been restored, self-respect and dignity and recognizing that God loves them who they are.

Sid: In 1999 you went to Israel but you didn’t just go to Israel you went with your full regalia of your ancestors dress and describe what you looked like?

Jonathan: Well I have 3 feathers on the top of my head that are eagle feathers.  I have on a piece called a Kostowa and it’s kind of like the headpiece that you would wear as an ambassador or somebody going to represent the Mohawk people. I had all buckskin or deerskin clothing that were traditional to my people.

Sid: Why did you go to Israel?

Jonathan: I went to Israel because I wanted to get connected to God’s people to the chosen ones, you know the chosen of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Because I serve the same God they serve I wanted to go and honor them and to love them.

Sid: But you had no idea, at least I assume you had no idea, that when you went there in your full regalia the Rabbis told you about a prophetic word 21 years ago.  Tell me about that.

Jonathan: Yeah it was a prophetic word actually it was one of the guys that was with our team his name is Richard Nunez. And Richard has been really a student or a lover of the Jewish people for a long long time. He went… we were at the wall and he went to the some of the Rabbi’s and he began to ask them “You know if it was okay for us to come in our regalia and to pray at the wall because our regalia the word regalia means royal robes. And when we wear regalia it’s because we’re coming with a heart of respect and dignity and honor.  So as we asked could we come to the wall in our royal robes so to speak, and the Rabbis’ welcomed us to come. So they told us that there was at the time 1999 there was a prophesy that they said that came out in 18 years before had been spoken that when First Nations people come to the wall in their regalia it was going to be a sign of the end times. When we came to the wall I mean it was amazing just 100’s of Jewish people came around us and began to ask us “What are you doing? Why are you here?” And we began to share our hearts with them that we were there to bless and to honor the Jewish people and to honor the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was absolutely an incredible incredible time. From that we were asked and we were welcomed to go to the Knesset and we went before Avraham Burg. Protocol among First Nations People is one of the most important things and protocol to our people is giving. Whenever we go to another man’s place or another man’s territory we always carry with us gifts, we always carry gifts to honor. And they aren’t just like token gifts but they’re something special to us. And Israel as we went there and we were before Avraham Burg it was all of the people, all of our First Nations people were showering him with gifts, I mean he received eagle headdresses, he received pottery, and beautiful basket work, and bead work, and regalia, and just a whole bunch of things. And I took off my Kastowa, which is my headpiece of my people, and the Kastowa had the basic frame of my father’s Kastowa on it. And my father had always been a lover and always been one who prayed for the peace of Jerusalem. And his desire was to go to Jerusalem but he died before he could get a chance to go to Israel. And I had the privilege and the honor of carrying his Kastowa and giving it to the Chairman of the House of Israel.  So I had the chance to do that and he accepted it and we sang before them. We were they called us Warrior of Peace in the Jerusalem Post and in CNN they said there was First Nations People.  And he said “You keep referring to yourselves as warriors and he said “When I think of warriors,” he says “I think of people with guns doing battle.” But when I look at you he said it means Warriors of Peace.”  And so this was his declaration over us that we were “Warriors of Peace.” And while we were in Israel we had some other very interesting things happen. We had one of the Generals of the Israeli Defense Forces contact us and asked us if we would sing on our drum for the Defense Forces across the radio network of all of the defense forces outposts all across you know whether it was Lebanon, or Jordan, or Israel, or wherever they were. And we sang right in their Renaissance Jerusalem Hotel we set up our drum and we sang over the radio to all of the Israeli Defense Outposts everywhere.

Sid: Jon off of your CD “Rise Up Mighty Warrior.” This is what the Israeli Defense Forces might have heard.

Our Guests Bob & Jayne Griffin

Bob Griffin

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah he’s a Prophet his name is Bob Griffin. I’ve caught up with him in Charlotte, North Carolina where he’s speaking at a church there and this broadcast is being done on April 10th the day before April 9th Bob Griffin had a revelation from God that the world will never be the same. What did God show you?

Bob: Well it actually it literally began Sid probably about 8 weeks ago and the Lord began to during the time of the prophetic word a date came out and you know we’ve seen so many people that have given dates about different things and the one thing that we don’t want to do is we don’t want to cause people to stumble, but we do have to lean to His understanding when He’s beginning to speak something out and so…

Sid: You know even before you tell us what God showed you God has used you with specific dates with people in the past give me one example.

Bob:  Well here’s an example and this is a fresh one so it’s a testimony that’s on the tip of my tongue.  I received a phone call a few days and somewhere around 6 or 7 weeks ago I came into a meeting I began prophesying to an individual and it was a very lengthy prophecy probably close to 15 minute long specific word.  Which a lot of people at times will wonder why doesn’t the Lord speak to me that way but God chose to speak to this man in length.  During that specific word I gave him a date and I said “On March 13th your life will begin to take a new turn, it will begin to change God’s going to open up several doors of effectual ministry that are going to change your life and it’s what you’ve been believing God for” and I gave him some other details. Well that was about the end of it he came up afterwards and said “Boy you have no idea what you ministered to me.” And I hear that every single night because the accuracy is there and the fruit is there. And suddenly I get a phone call from him and he said “Do you remember prophesying to me about March 13th, and I said “Yes.” And he said “Could I give you a testimony?” And I said “Sure.” So he just called me up and this is fresh and he just said “He said I’m endeavoring to be a film maker in Hollywood and he said “I’m endeavoring to write scripts and he said on the morning of March 13th the Holy Spirit woke me up and there was a heavy anointing on me and he said “I sat down and I wrote an entire script for a Hollywood production and I wrote it all in one day.” He said “I’d been dreaming about this for nearly 20 years and he said “I’ve never had the anointing to do it but I woke up that morning and he said it just blossomed.”  That afternoon I receive a phone call from a producer in Hollywood with a production company, that I won’t mention but very major production company, and they called him up and said “We’ve heard that you’re endeavoring to do some work and do you have any scripts that you can show us?” And he said “As a matter of fact I do.” That was the end of it until just a few days ago he called me again and he said “I’m meeting with this Hollywood production company who is also meeting Paul Crouch and we’re endeavoring to do some stuff together. So as we begin to do these things together would you please be holding me up in prayer?”  Now I gave him a specific date of March 13 his life is radically turned. He had mentioned he had no intention of traveling anywhere for 6 months until he gets the call from a Hollywood producer that said “Get on the plane I want to meet you in Las Vegas.” He’s actually there on this very day the day that we’re speaking he’s there right now.

Sid: Now I’m going to take you back a few weeks ago and you bumped into the producer of my television show Janie DuVall and in the midst of conversation you said to her that “There would be a dramatic change of some sort in the ministry of Messianic Vision or my ministry on April 9th.”  And then the Lord started expanding what would happen on April 9th.

Bob: Yes.

Sid: Take it from there.

Bob: It was actually very special when I began ministering to her out of my spirit this date came forward and I’m sometimes hesitant you know we don’t realize what we’re saying when we’re under the anointing and we’re foretelling and were spilling out. When that day came out I really didn’t know what it was but I had time to go on and reflect and say “Okay Lord, what is about to change?” And what happened is I had a supernatural dream, I have dreams and I know that they are supernatural dreams that you know come from the Spirit of the Lord. Here’s what began to take place, I had a dream that I almost throughout I thought “This might be junk mail I thought that I would just throw it out.”  And it wouldn’t go away and I woke up one morning I dreamed that I was walking along side of a building and I was heading from a westerly direction to the east.  All of a sudden I looked and I was with 4 other people whose faces I didn’t know and I was walking along and suddenly I was taken out of myself, carried up to a high mountain and I was looking down at myself walking with these 4 people.  Suddenly the whole group of 5 made a left hand turn around the building and there was a river coming out from beneath this building and a bridge.  And the 5 of us began to cross over and as we began to cross over we turned and knocked on a door and the door opened. And when the door opened a woman was standing inside and we made another left hand turn and when we made this other left hand turn all of a sudden these 5 women were in there preparing for a great big meeting.  And they did something very unusual and I’ll try to hurry this up but they began to dance and one of them said “All we want to do is see Him and she motioned to the heavens and pointed to her eyes and she said all we want to do is hear Him, and all we want to do is feel Him in this place.” Suddenly she said “Get ready, get ready and suddenly the whole building began to shake, the floor was shaking and vibrating the floor, everything was just moving with this sound and it was an Israeli Jewish sound that was coming into this building. Suddenly she said “There must be one here, there must be one here” and I turned around to see what they were pointing at and she said “Are you Jewish?” And she said “Yes, she said “This sound is coming for you.” And I suddenly realized in this dream that I thought I was going to a meeting that was going to last 10 minutes or so and then it was going to be over but suddenly this sound was happening and it was something very pivotal.  Well when I was coming through the doorway the woman standing there at the door said “18, 19, 20, 21.” And I thought “What is that?”  I woke up from the dream and I started to throw it away and the Lord said “I want you to take a look at this.” And I began to realize that the Lord was speaking to me about the 5 fold ministry, there were 5 of us we were walking from the west which represents grace, the east which represents the law and God was having us turn around in the 5 fold ministry and look at once more towards the east towards Jerusalem.  Suddenly we made a left hand turn we crossed over a river. I began to study Ezekiel the water that comes out from underneath the temple it flows from the west to the east I began to crossover the bridge.  As we’re crossing over the Lord saying the 5 fold ministry is beginning to cross over the church is going to begin to make a major turn. The Spirit of the Lord is saying right now as we begin to make this major turn the church is going to begin to turn their eyes once more towards Jerusalem and suddenly we knocked on the door when the door opened up all of a sudden realized that something was happening.  I woke up from the dream and I began to count as I began to count we made three left hand turns, we made three right hand turns, we made a left hand turn and all of a sudden I realized that cadence was happening your left, your left, your left right left, it was a countdown three lefts, two rights a left. Three to one this is a countdown for the church for the church to turn back towards Israel. And this is shift that we’re talking about on the April 9 I believe that God is saying look again. And its no coincidence that at this time Colin Powell is visiting getting ready to form an alliance that will come in and help Israel. I believe that the Lord is saying that even as a nation we’re to turn and look. Even as the church were to turn and look and the Lord is telling us to embrace Him for the storm. God spoke to me yesterday and He said “I want my people to embrace me for this storm; I want them to come close to me before these things take place.” And I suddenly realized that the Lord is crying out for intimacy and in the midst of that 3-2-1 countdown the Lord began to take me to Revelation 3:21.  When I looked at it He said “I’ll grant you to sit on the thrones with Me and then I looked at the 18, 19, 21. I counsel you buy from me gold refined in the fire. I counsel you to get white garments that you’ll be clean and I counsel you to get eye salve for your eyes.  I believe God is saying that this is the time that the Gentile church is the Christian church will begin to turn around and not be anti-Semitic but to turn around and begin to look towards the holy roots, begin to look and realize that we’ve all been grafted in and then God is doing something very powerful and it’s a time for us to turn around.   I believe that the water mark that the Lord was speaking about April 9th and I believe in addition to that that we’re going to see some incredible things happening in our nation and the Middle East.

Sid: Tell me what we’re going to see and again Mishpocha this is being done on April 10th 2002.

Bob: Well I believe that the Lord is saying right now that we are to look towards the Middle East and toward Saddam Hussein during the mouth of June that we are to look up. Several weeks ago the Lord woke me up from a dream and He said “There’s going to be a big earthquake.” I went into a service that night and I announced it I said “The Lord said there’s going to be a big earthquake.” Well four days later we had one in Afghanistan.  Two weeks later goes by the Lord says “More earthquakes.” We had 2 more then we had another in the Philippines. And then the Lord said “Another earthquake coming and God says “I’m going to shake Baghdad.”  The Lord said the governments of this age are not going to do this work but the governments of God are going to begin to do this work.” And the Lord began to show me “Look back towards that 1040 window again.”  Well I know when the Lord begins to redirect my path He’s saying “You’re doing but I want you to turn around and look at what I’m doing and where I’m going.” And so I hope that I’m sensitive enough to start turning where He’s going and walk where He’s going.

Sid: Is there…there’s going to be an outpouring of God’s Spirit we know this; what kind of shaking will occur in America as well as the Middle East?

Bob: Well it’s interesting in 1992 the Lord began to prepare our ministry.  I asked Him one day there was so much speculation about oh tribulation, rapture and everything.  I said Lord this is just so confusing I’m a new Spirit Filled believer I don’t know what to believe and I heard the Lord say “Prepare to go through tribulation.” He didn’t say we’re going to go through it He said “Prepare to.” And so we began to dig in and we began to get ready.” And so when I hear the Lord say “Embrace for the storm.” I believe He’s telling us I want you to embrace and that there’s a lot more getting ready to happen. And so I believe that He’s telling us that to get close to Him, get sensitive to Him let Him speak to us with this outpouring that He’s giving to us so that we are in our right position.

Sid:  Are we going to see more disasters in America?

Bob: There’s no doubt in my mind that we’re going to see more I regret that I wish that we weren’t but I believe that the prayers that came forth in 9/11 averted much catastrophe.  And I believe that unfortunately we’re coming back to a place of complacency and lethargy and apathy and when we do we’re not pressing in. But I believe that the Spirit of God is for us to come back to Him right now.

Sid: …People that have taken the course of yours have they been able to understand dreams and visions?

Bob: Oh absolutely we just got a phone call less than an hour ago from a woman who said “I’ve never had any dreams and visions we came to the conference I’ve been having visions all days the impartations was caught; the oil of the Holy Spirit is upon her and she’s understanding.  My children I have little children who have been having drams and visions because they have been under this anointing. And my little daughter Jasmine when she was 4½ years old began having dreams.  She began speaking in tongues and baptized in the Holy Spirit and she began to have…

Sid: Bob we’re out of time.

Our Guest Peter Gammons


Sid:  Now Mishpochah this is not hard to believe for a Bible believer that believes in the Bible, but it’s hard to believe for a normal American Christian that my guest who I will introduce you to in a moment in one campaign in Brazil 45 deaf and dumb people instantly were healed, 45 many born that way.  My guest Peter Gammons I’m speaking to him in Orlando, Florida where he’s pastor of Cathedral of Faith. Peter this is so mind blowing that if God hadn’t done that through your ministry would you have difficulty believing that this is going on today?

Peter: Not really when I came to Christ and I discovered Jesus heals the sick today Jesus said “You’ll do greater things than I did because I go to the Father.”

Sid: Well He said that but you know where the rubber meets the road here in America if one person that was deaf and dumb got instantly healed it would make headlines.

Peter: Yeah it makes headlines it’s made headlines in Brazil in the cities where we’ve seen it happen. There’s not been one person they say that doesn’t know about the miracles that have taken place it’s shaking cities.

Sid: Peter did you come from a good Christian family?

Peter: No I didn’t.  I wasn’t raised in a Christian home the only time I ever heard the name Jesus was in blasphemy.

Sid: As you know I come from a Jewish background and the same was true for me but normally I don’t think of someone that’s not Jewish being raised in that type of environment in this day and age.  So coming from that environment where did you first start having a spiritual appetite?

Peter: What happened was I was born 11 years after my brother and my parents after my brother was born and nearly died at birth were told that they couldn’t have anymore children. And so for 11 years they were thinking that they couldn’t have any more children and then suddenly I appeared.  And my mother said “Lord we give this one to You” she wasn’t spiritual but she just felt that it was a miracle baby and said “I give this one to you.” From as young as I can remember I was searching for God. I involved in the music business at a young age and actually joined the local church choir just to get voice training but it was not an evangelical church and I never heard the gospel preached there but I attended for many years and was going to the 8:00 service, the 10:00 service and the 6:00 service as an unsaved person.

Sid: But why did you?

Peter: I knew that there was a God and I wanted to know Him but I didn’t know how to find Him and I even considered entering the priesthood but the priest advised me against it and said that he wouldn’t recommend it to anybody (Laughing.) I just was searching for God and then one day I was invited along to a meeting to a meeting with a group of young people and I went along to the service. And there was a young man that talked about how he met with Jesus personally and how Jesus had taken him out of a life as a gang leader. Which h I wasn’t in anything terrible like but I went away and they gave me a little booklet called “Journey into life.” And I went home and it talked about how I could know Jesus personally and there was a prayer to receive Christ as my Savior.  And I prayed that prayer and there was no flash of light and there was no angels floating around the bedroom.  But I had a peace inside that God had forgiven me and that Jesus had saved me and now I was just so excited I met with Jesus personally and I wanted to tell the whole world. And that’s how I got the fervor to be an evangelist.

Sid:  And now I notice something else that we had in common that in additional to being raised in a household where Jesus name was predominately a curse word, I had as a young child a tremendous fear of death.

Peter: Hm.

Sid: And I remember having a conversation with myself one time that went something like this I as home and alone and the conversation was “What happens when you die?” There was just a question popped into my heard I don’t even know why and I started as a young child trying to visualize and I could only come up with the cease to exist scenario and that was so objectionable I just blocked it from my mind.  Why did you have such a fear of death?

Peter:  Yeah what happen was one day I was walking home from a club where I had been performing a nightclub where I had been performing and I noticed that this man was following me everywhere I went he followed me and he was getting closer and closer and I could hear his footsteps behind him and in the end I stopped and I turned to him and said to him “Why are you following me?” And he said “I’m going to kill you.” And I said “Why and he said “I don’t like you.” And he’d been watching me all night and I’d had friends all around me and was having a lot of fun and he was a strange character just standing in a corner watching. What happened I regarded as a miracle but my mother had been at home and she had been feeling very uneasy and she decided she was just going to drive around and see if she could see me anywhere and she pulled up alongside me as I’m standing there with this man. And she wound down the window and said “Get in the car.” And so I jumped in the car and then she just sat there thinking that it was a friend of mine that I was talking to and waiting for him to get into the car. (Chuckling.)

Sid:  Hm.

Peter: And I just said “Go go he’s going to kill me” and she said “Well we’re going to call the police.” And I said he’s got brothers who are bigger than him. And what happened was he ended up stabbing a policeman. But it left me with a terrible fear of death and I started was music and my whole life was a singer.  I started singing about having guard dogs and bars at the window and suddenly what I thought was going to be freedom and happiness and success became my prison.  And I used to have a single prayer I prayed “Don’t let me die, don’t ley my cat die, don’t ley my grandma die, don’t ley my mother die, and don’t let me die” and that was my whole prayer life I was afraid of death. And the night that I received Jesus I got the Bible that my grandmother had given me many years earlier though I’d never read it before. And I didn’t know where to look in the Bible but I just opened it up and it fell open in Philippians chapter 1 and I read these words “For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.” And I said “How can anybody say that to die is gain? And I thought well the night I was saved I thought I’m only going to be with Jesus what could be better?  And for the first time I turned the light off and I went to sleep. I used to sleep with the light on because I was afraid someone was going to get me I had my bed in the middle of the room.

Sid: Hm. A lot of children do that.

Peter:  I had a knife beside my bed and I even got myself a gun and that’s how afraid of somebody killing me I had this phobia.

Sid:  And so the fear was surrounding you and instantly it disappeared?

Peter: As instant as this I turned the light off and went to sleep and I’ve never had problems sleeping since. I’ve had problems waking up but no problems going to sleep since.

Sid: (Laughing) Yeah I noticed something else in your bio that intrigued me and there came a point in your life where you wanted God’s power desperately tell me about that point.

Peter: Hm.  What happened was I had a year as a Christian after I was born again. I had a whole year of trying to win people for Jesus I’d tell them about Jesus and they were not interested. And I couldn’t work this out because I was so desperate to know God and I couldn’t work out how everybody wasn’t. And then…

Sid:  I had that same problem when I became a believer my biggest shock is very few Christians were Christians.

Peter: Yeah yeah it’s amazing and of course living in England which I was born and raised there and only moved to America 3 years ago so I was far more cynical in anti-Christian environment and with very few evangelical Christians.  And so here I was in a situation where I tried evangelizing I tried praying and I didn’t know how to pray.  I heard someone talk about anything but they never said that tithing had anything to do with money it just said we need to give 10%. So I thought it meant 10% of my time and I thought I had to pray 10% of my time. And so I tried giving God 2 hours and 40 minutes and if you can imagine as a new Christian trying to give God 2 hours and 40minutes within 2 minutes I run out of ideas what to pray about so I got under total condemnation that I as a useless Christian and in the end I just got to the point where one point I lay in bed and I said “God I don’t know how to live this Christian life I’m messing it up if I were you I’d take me home now because I’m only going to let You down.”  And I said “I’m going to count to 10” and I was very serious I said “I’m going to count to 10 and if I’m still here when I get to 10 I’m going to live for you.”And I began to count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.” When I got to 10 I was still there and I’m going to live for You but I’m going to need something and I don’t know what I need.” So I went along to a service where I heard that they prayed for people afterwards and at the end I went forward I didn’t listen to a word that the minister had prayed it was a charismatic service and they’d have people that were hopping around and dancing in the service and I thought that this was terrible and I thought they should be reverent and this kind of thing. And I never seen the enthusiasm on people alive for Jesus.  But they prayed for people at the end and I went forward and I said “I just need something in my life I just need power.” And the man showed me in Acts chapter 1:8 where it says “You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you’ll be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth.” And he showed how when the power of the Holy Spirit came on the early disciples it turned them into preachers and people were saved 3000 saved the first day and he said “You need the Baptism.” He said “Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit?” I said “I’ve never heard of it before and he said “You need it.” And I said well if I need it I’ll have it. And so he prayed for me to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and I just felt such power I felt twice as tall as I walked out of the meeting.  And the preacher said to me “Have you spoken in tongues yet?” Who had been preaching and I said “I’ve never heard about that I’ll have to read a book on that subject.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Peter: But I knew that there was a power in my life so I got this book that was by Rita and Dennis Bennett called “The Holy Spirit in You.” About the revival that took place in the Episcopal Church and I got as far as page…as far as the second chapter and I said “Lord I can’t wait and tried to speak in tongues. And I thought that the Holy Spirit was going to come and take control but God never possesses you have to cooperate with Him and take a step of faith and speak out by faith. But I didn’t understand all of that then and I was expecting God to do something but it said “They spoke in tongues it didn’t say God did.”

Sid: Peter hold that thought we’re going to pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast…

Our Guest John McTernan


Sid: My guest right here in the studio is John McTernan author of a brand new book that I believe will be one of the most influential books to what God is doing in these last days at this moment.  More important than any book I know short of the Bible it’s called “Israel the Blessing or the Curse.”  And John has traced within 24 hours every time the United States comes against Israel or the Jewish people there is a horrible devastation and he goes one after another after another. And you can’t call this a coincidence it ties in with Genesis 12:3 God says “I’ll bless those that bless the Jewish people and I will curse those that curse them.” And if there’s any skeptics if they read this book they won’t be skeptics any longer.  On yesterdays broadcast there is so much misinformation John McTernan in reference to the Palestinians and the conflict between the Arabs and the Jews.  For starters where do we get the name Palestinian?

John: Well Sid we go back to the Roman destruction of Israel in 70 AD and it was a very very bitter war I mean the Jews fought fiercely against the Romans.  The Roman’s had such hatred toward the Jews that they literally tore up Jerusalem, they destroyed the Temple Mount didn’t leave one stone upon another which Jesus said would happen. And they plowed up the city, they brought plows in and they plowed it up and they changed the name from Judea at that time to Palestine and they did that as an insult. And they went back to the Philistines who were upon the land 100’s of years before.

Sid: So the word Palestine or Palestinians is really the Philistines.

John: Yes exactly, exactly.  And yeah it was a name given by the Romans will say approximately 2000 years ago.

Sid: Okay in 70AD the Jews were disbursed although there’s always been a remnant in Israel.  However then what happened?

John: Well Sid from that time we’ll just pick 70AD because there was second uprising in 136 AD but from 70 AD up until the creation of the rebirth of the nation of Israel in May of 1948 there was always a Jewish presence in the land always. And when it says that they were disbursed into the nations probably 95% of the Jews went to the nations but always there was a Jewish presence and especially Jerusalem always. And Israel was never another nation. And that’s what’s amazing Sid is that Israel became like providence in an empire it never became a separate nation by itself.  And Jerusalem was never the capital of any other nation but Israel.  But an example we’ll take the Ottoman Turks.  The Ottoman Turks ruled that area for about 400 years. And the capital of that providence was not even Jerusalem it was Damascus. And Jerusalem was a little backward city that no one was paying any attention to after the crusades were over and all of that until the Jews came back to the land. And then all of a sudden Israel became, Jerusalem became a critical importance.

Sid: You point out in your book that when the Roman’s changed the name to Palestine it wasn’t for the Arabs it was for the whole region. So a Jewish person living in Israel at that time would be a Palestinian as much as a Arab person.

John: Absolutely correct.

Sid: And it was an insult really because they wanted to call them Philistines.

John: Right and prior to 1948 we know that Israel was under the British mandate from the end of World War I to 1942 the UN, or the League of Nations, had put Israel under what is called the British mandate.  And when the British issued passports from there it was Philistine, it was Palestine is what is was called. And a Jewish person prior to 1948 would have a Palestine passport they would have been born in Palestine.

Sid: So how did all of these Palestinians get to Palestine?

John: Well Sid if you read anything in history you’ll see back in the 1700’s especially 1800’s Israel was kind of a barren kind of a forsaken land.

Sid: So no one would want it really.

John:  Exactly Mark Twain, Samuel Clemons, he traveled there and he said “You travel for like days and not see anyone and just desert and malaria infested swamps.” But as the Jews came back in the late 1800’s the land…when the Jews left it was like cursed and became barren and as soon as they back it became blessed and very productive cities were built.  And the man in particular who is responsible for bringing the modern day Palestinians there was a man called Haj Al Husseini who was the mufti of Jerusalem.  He was the one that was spiritually the Muslim head of Jerusalem. And he became concerned when he saw Jews starting to come in numbers back to Israel. And he put a call out to the Arab nations for them to come and they did come. They basically came from Iraq and Egypt. And in great numbers the British allowed open immigration any Arab could come in but limited Jewish immigration and to then what was called Palestine. So the modern day of course there are some Palestinians that say that they can trace their ancestry a long time. But the modern day ones including Arafat are Egyptians or Iraqis.

Sid: Is it true that one of the major reasons they came is of course it was the call out but the land was prospering and there were jobs.

John: Right and right Sid as the Jews came back it was great agriculture the cities were being built and there was work. To this day the Palestinians the vast majority of their employment in Israel and that was from the very beginning when God began to restore Israel there was jobs and there was work there. And the Arabs came for that political reason they were called but also because there was work and employment and they could be I guess because the Lord was blessing the land of Israel.

Sid: Okay so they weren’t there originally the vast majority of them, they’re in this land it’s their land now Israel’s independence is declared, what happened next?

John: Sid on the very day Israel declared independence May 14, 1948 six Arab nations declared war on Israel and they attacked Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan they all simultaneously they all attacked Israel.  Israel didn’t do anything Israel did not fire one shot, Israel didn’t really have…they just had like a militia to defend themself.  And I believe if you read history regarding that war in 1948 it’s a true miracle of God that the nation of Israel existed. And what happened was the Arabs put out a call for the Palestinians, the Arab Palestinians at that time to flee the land. And they literally said “They were going to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the Mediterranean” that’s what they said.  And the Palestinians that the Arabs that responded to this left the land and these armies came in. However they were defeated and because they were defeated Israel did not allow these Arabs to come back into the land because these are the people that wanted Israel destroyed.  These are the people that fled the land because they wanted these armies they wanted to avoid the fighting they wanted these armies to destroy Israel and then they would come back in and take the land that the Jews had there.

Sid: Okay so Israel said “Okay we don’t want you back.”  So why didn’t the wealthy Arab countries they are so much larger they are so much wealthier than Israel just take them as immigrants into their country?

John: Sid this is one of the truth of history that we have people now since 1948, 53 years that are still in camps from the 1940’s. The reason is the Arab nations want to keep these people as pawns; they can be used as political pressure against Israel. That’s probably a cold hard way of looking at it; Israel absorbed the people that were like Iraq that they fled Egypt Israel absorbed all of them.  The Palestinians that left and went to Jordan they’re still in refugee camps to this day the Syrians will not absorb them into their society.

Sid: Why?

John: Because they want to keep them as pawns against Israel; political pawns to put pressure on Israel over the land.

Sid: Okay let’s look at it from a religious view point.  There are Muslim holy sites in Israel we know this; that’s why they want the land.

John: Well it’s actually Jerusalem and Sid I never thought I’d be kind of an expert on the Quran but I studies the Quran now because of everything that’s going on.  And we say chapter and verse and Muslims say Sura that’s their expression. And they base meaning the Muslims they base their claim on Sura 17 verse 1.  And I’m going to paraphrase it that Mohammed went to Jerusalem and from Jerusalem he ascended into heaven on a white horse and he saw Jesus and they only view the Lord as a prophet they don’t view Him as the Son of God.  And He saw Jesus as a prophet all the prophets they then they then built this the Dome of the Rock at that spot where he ascended into heaven.  Plus they have this one of their important mosques Al Aqsa mosque is also the Temple Mount site. Now the problem with that Sid is in 630 Mohammed, died in 632 AD, at that point Jerusalem was a Christian City. On what we call today the Dome of the Rock and the Temple Mount there was a Catholic Church, the church of St. Mary.  Mohammed never went to Jerusalem and Jerusalem was not captured by the Muslim cavalry until 638 AD. There wasn’t a mosque built there until 60 years later.  So the whole thing is made up Sid it’s all contrived.

Sid: All contrived.

John: But people don’t know that, people think…

Sid: Now wait a second someone not a Christian, not a Jew or maybe nominal in both camps that’s a reporter this is so basic so elementary if you will why isn’t this in the news? The reporters are you know they should be honest not all but some there should be some honest reporters.

John: Well Sid I think there’s agendas out there; I think a lot of them are perhaps ignorant they don’t care and there’s agendas. I think that there is a huge percentage of the media that are against Israel, they’re not for Israel they’re against Israel. They’ll let that go because it is politically advantageous to have it like that.

Sid: There is only one explanation…

Our Guest Martha Kilpatrick

Martha Kilpatrick 1292 (2002)

Sid: My guest Martha Kilpatrick has a new book titled “Chariot of Fire – Elijah of the Last Days.” Now recently I had a conference in Brunswick, Georgia called “Days of Elijah.” So somehow this book got into a pile of books, and when books come to me what I do is I give them to Janie DuVall, producer of the radio and television show and Janie’s job is to screen the books; that’s my normal method so to speak especially with a conference coming up. But “Days of Elijah” was the title of the conference and the book was called “Elijah of the Last Days.” So I picked it up and I said to myself “There is such an important message here. First thing I want to do is I want to call Martha and tell her how much it ministered to me.” Then I suggested she come to our conference and she came to our conference, and she spoke just for a few minutes really and some of our people got set free. One woman in particular tell me about her Martha.

Martha: She came to me after I spoke with tears running down her cheeks and she said “I’ve been set free today. I didn’t understand what my problem was, I saw it finally as Jezebel” and the root of her problem was fear.

Sid: You know Martha the thing that is so amazing to me is when people hear Jezebel they think that’s a stigma of “Oh! They’re into witchcraft, and they’re filled with demons.” When I read your book I saw Jezebel and Ahab in my own life. I believe that everyone of us are dealing with those spirits in our lives, and with people that have those spirits that are in a simplistic approach as I understand it, a Jezebel spirit controls through intimidation and fear. An Ahab spirit wants peace at any price and submits to everything and where is God in the equation, He’s nowhere. Once this lightbulb goes on you can do something about it. So what happened to this woman?

Martha: Yes well apparently she was struggling with something and she didn’t have its name. Now most of defeating Jezebel is to realize that’s what it is, that it is a Jezebel spirit, it is a principality much more than a demonic thing. All of us have that propensity any of us can go in either direction.

Sid: So you lost me for a second you said “It’s a principality rather than demonic.” Well principality is demonic.

Martha: But it has a… the Jezebel spirit has an authority higher than a demonic.

Sid: Ah I see.

Martha: So it is a bigger force and all of us have the tendency we can go into giving up our volition, or we can take control. When you do that as a lifestyle you enter that realm of Satan’s involvement.

Sid: What about when you stated a word that got me thinking, “We can give up our volition.” Could something such as wanting to appease the flesh but not in a horrible way “Oooh just fun – fun – fun,” nice things rather than spending time developing intimacy with God. I don’t mean to put trips on anyone. Could this be a spirit?

Martha: It could be. God has to define and name, so your relationship God is as the Holy Spirit whispers to you and says “It’s that woman in the conference.” The Holy Spirit let her see a connection between her problem and what I was sharing. It can go to a spirit, the human tendency is to want pleasure, but when that is indulged and indulged then it can be taken over by the stronghold of the enemy. Jezebel is about feeling good, it’s about pleasures of the flesh of all kinds. That is the goal is just to be comfortable and feel good…

Sid: But where do you draw the line as you said “It’s no sin and God wants us to enjoy this life,” but by the same token He doesn’t want it to… Where’s the line drawn?

Martha: The line exists in the heart. I say in the book that the war is not with Jezebel but it is within your own heart.

Sid: We always look at the other person rather than ourselves…

Martha: Yes and we look at the enemy.

Sid: Hmm hm.

Martha: And at the one who’s attacking. But the real battle is in the human heart and it’s a matter of worship. Ultimately it boils down to what do you worship? What you worship, first of all is what you fear, and what you love, and what you want. If you heart is right then the Jezebel spirit will not take you nor will the Ahab spirit.

Sid: Where does someone draw the line in a marriage where their wife or their husband through fear or perhaps “Maybe there’ll be a divorce if I don’t submit to them…” There’s a hard question, where does someone draw that line? Do you understand what I’m saying?

Martha: Yes I do understand because Jezebel, Ahab is a marriage.

Sid: Right.

Martha: That principality Satan loves to insert it into a marital relationship, into a church, brother and sister relationship, and the line is drawn only by the Holy Spirit. So the solution someone asked me “Do you have the solution here?” I said “It is not a How-To book” because it points to a relationship with God and intimacy with Him. You have to hear His voice individually and in that marriage as to how to walk that out and how to understand where control crosses the line into your very soul. It takes really the voice of God and the presence of God, a relationship with Him is the solution to it.

Sid: It’s actually, you give an example in your book of it could be life threatening if you cross over the line. Would you explain that?

Martha: Yes there is a real spirit of intimidation and aggression that comes from Jezebel. In the Biblical story she did murder many of God’s people and God’s prophets. There is a definite threat “If you don’t do what I say, you will perish,” and there can be literally the threat of death.

Sid: And the bigger question Martha is, what does God think of all of this?

Martha: One of the things I wanted to convey in this book is the reality of the judgment of God against those who participate in the Jezebel spirit. He mentions it in Revelation 2 which is written to the New Testament church. This is not under the Old Covenant this is under the new. He says about tolerating Jezebel “I’ve given her time to repent and she’s unwilling so I’ve cast her on the bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery (spiritual adultery is more of what it means with her) suffer intensely and I will strike her children dead.” I think we have seen the reality of this in lives, we have seen deaths and suffering and sickness that was related to the Jezebel principality.

Sid: But Martha, we have a whole country of Christians in the United States of America that are pleasure seekers rather than fear of God. Do you think some sort of judgment will be coming even on America?

Martha: Yes I do. I think it has begun.

Sid: In 1998 you had a word from God, what was that?

Martha: Yes. I saw… I was in Jeremiah and I saw that when Jezebel is allowed to rule a nation and it goes into the queen of heaven, that there is an inevitable judgment. The Lord spoke to me that we would go to war. I shared it with my church and called them to prepare to be warriors to use the time we had to get ready, and that there was no prayer that could pray it away, it an inevitable war.

Sid: Was it revealed what nations were involved?

Martha: No.

Sid: I mean it appears as though it could very well… this starting point could be a war with Iraq.

Martha: Yes.

Sid: Which would then involve other nations taking sides could easily be.

Martha: Yes very easily. That was an obvious choice, but the…

Sid: So what’s going to happen as a consequence of this war?

Martha: I’m not sure that I know that. I just know that believers have to be strong in the Lord, ready to do spiritual warfare, and prepared for any eventuality including suffering as believers.

Sid: Could we actually have war in this… did you see war in this country?

Martha: I did not see war in this country but I did see great suffering.

Sid: So if there’s ever been a time to remove the obstacles from intimacy with God. In effect that’s the subject of your book…

Martha: Yes it is

Sid: …that we’re talking about. Why did you write the book “Chariot of Fire – Elijah the Last Days?”

Martha: I began to see that God wanted me to, I didn’t much want to I didn’t want to know as much about Jezebel as I know. I was sort of like Elijah, I had had a stream of life experiences with Jezebel figures that I had to learn the secrets of Elijah.  As I went through years of this I began to see the tremendous need in the body of Christ. We do not recognize evil, we do not recognize the judgment of God as it comes in our midst. We don’t name it, we rather that I write in the book that we’d rather dance than fight. We’d rather make merry than grapple, and we don’t name evil, and see evil, and it is crucial that we do so.

Sid: What feedback, although it’s a new book, what feedback are you getting from people that read it?

Martha: I had a word a number of people have been extremely affected, and transformed, healed one woman called it “Healed.” She read it 5 times.

Sid: Now I read it very quickly because the conference was coming up. I intend to read it slowly it is that kind of book.

Martha: The book is intended for you to… for the reader to deal with those propensities. And in self before you begin to even take on the Jezebel in another person or in a church or whatever. But it is a personal individual journey.

Sid: It is really a block to intimacy with God…

Martha: Yes it is.

Sid: A major block.

Martha: That’s what Jezebel steals is intimacy with God. She comes and interferes with that communication.

Sid: I want to ask you about your intimacy with God, I mean I’m overwhelmed with the path God’s taking you, but we’re out of time today.

Our Guest John Carver

Sid: I have on the telephone a man that’s spent 30 years archiving all of the records he could find and videos and audio cassettes of the greatest miracle ministries the world has known.  And he has the most expensive collection of archives of these materials….As I said to you John in another broadcast my favorite is Branham. The way that he would look at complete strangers; he would actually see lights over people’s heads.

John: Hmm hm.

Sid: And would you explain that?

John: Well it’s just what the Bible talks about a wonder it makes you wonder.

Sid: A sign and a wonder.

John: Signs, wonders and miracles and God demonstrated that in this tremendous move of the Voice of Health Ministers in the 40’s and 50’s there.  And Braham was just a unique guy some of his early messages we have I was looking at one prior to getting on this interview. And there was just a simple message called “Paradox.” He talks about how Joshua says to the son “Be still.” Well that’s a wonder you see and that makes you wonder and he talks about a person who is born again one of the greatest miracles in the world is when a person is born again and received Christ in his heart he’s a transformed person. And again I have my whole life that people couldn’t believe that I was saved you know this was the guy who was drinking and cussing and carrying on and being bad and now he’s a you know a goody goody.  It makes you wonder what has happening in that person’s life.  Branham has such a power and a walk with God that I don’t think the half has really been told about his ministry his early ministry. I know that I’ve met his daughter did an interview on her I’ve been in his home. I saw where he studied at, I’ve been to the place up in the mountains where the angel visited him and not that I was looking for any kind of experience but this was for getting a feel for the man. My thinking is like this “What was in the mind of say General Robert E Lee at Gettysburg what was he trying to achieve.” What was AA Allen trying to achieve, what was Branham trying to achieve?  They all had a commission from God to achieve something to get something done in a time and space world here and some of them completed it and some of them didn’t.

Sid: Okay tell me what the mission assignments from God for the 3 were.

John: First of all they were to be a witness to this generation with signs, wonders and miracles. Secondly they were to perpetuate that ministry through other people. And third to preserve, if you please, the integrity of the ministry and the closes person that came to that was Allen.

Sid: You know looking at them or even reading about people in the Bible was they…why couldn’t they have done this? Why couldn’t they have been better but it is a tough road to have a miracle ministry and walk in humility.

John: Walking in humility is not easy thing. When you have the decree…let’s stop and think for a minute you’ve got to and the audience you’ve got to…what if you had in your hand creative power to change the lives of people and the environment around you?  Let me tell you something there are very few humble people walking around.

Sid: Is it true that Branham was offered very exorbitant sums of money and just turned it down?

John: I have talked to 26 Voice of Healing preachers, 26 of them personally, and everyone that I’ve talked to said “William Branham was the most humblest man that they have ever met. Now when you’ve got 26 people testify to your credibility that’s something.

Sid: Tell me what affect it’s had studying all of the lives of all of these great men and women of God what affect does it have on you?

John: Well it gives me a deep appreciation for the mercy and the grace of God in people lives because first of all if I’d been God I wouldn’t had picked any of them.

Sid: I mean say take Kathryn Kuhlman for example.

John: Hmm hm.

Sid: She used to actually say she was not God’s first choice.

John: I believe that.

Sid: But God did not want a woman that spoke in that affective manner just… but He chose a lot of other people but according to her these men turned God down. How does a man turn God down for a miracle ministry?

John: Well it’s done actually William Branham did and he ended up losing his family in that great flood in that Ohio River.

Sid: That’s right I read about that.

John: Such heartache brought him to a place of surrender. Now I personally had to have to go through something like that I’d be scared to death to cross God not that God’s standing up there with a big hammer ready to belt us in the head because His grace is sufficient. I’ve lost God in my own life in 30 years of pasturing deal with people to get them into their ministry.  I’ve talked to I can’t tell you how many people that I know that God’s called them to a particular field of endeavors.

Sid: And why does someone turn God down knowing that’s what they’re created to do?

John: Well fear and selfishness are probably the 2 culprits that I would say that would grab a hold of a person’s heart not willing to pay the price.  I thought it to…I can’t tell you men that are ministering that would say “I am not going to go into a larger base ministry like saying going on to a radio or television knowing that they had the ability to go and the means to go but they didn’t want that kind of exposure they didn’t want their family to be…you know look at the travel time that some of the ministers that have put in today. Just hypothetical look at Benny Hinn look at the travel that he must have to do and how much time can he possibly have with his family?

Sid: As you said many times this week there’s a price to pay.

John: There is a price yes sir.

Sid: What about you? Tell me after having studied all of these men and women with the best archives imaginable?

John: Hmm hm.

Sid: How has God used you?

John: Well He’s using me just like He said that He would be using me with those pictures where tumors disappeared and blind eyes opened and the lame walked and all of that I’ve seen that in my own ministry 100’s of times.

Sid: Have you see these things in the United States a lot of people see these things outside of the US what about you?

John: I don’t have a problem ministering in the United States.  I mean I’ve only been out to Mexico and I actually seen more here in this country than I did see in Mexico.

Sid: Tell me what to you was the most vivid most exciting one miracle of a physical nature that you’ve seen.

John: There was a lady and I don’t think I’m going to say this right but her head was laying on her shoulder and her back was twisted, scoliosis, and she was probably 60 – 65 years of age. And it was a very powerful service and this would be probably had to understand for some folks but there is an energy that comes on you a power that comes on you and you don’t even think about what you’re doing. And when she came up and says “I want prayer for my back.” And I just picked her head up off her shoulder and I just straightened her up and she became straight and walked away.  Blind eyes one of the first miracles that I’ve ever saw in my life in my own ministry was a man who had a long white cane with you know with 5 or 5 inches of red on the bottom of it and he was healed in the first revival I had ever had.

Sid: That’s got to be forget the first just to see someone’s that’s blind get their sight back I mean it’s…

John: Yeah.

Sid: …that’s the way that it’s supposed to be but in most services that we go to for miracles we don’t see the blind and the deaf.

John: Well here Sir is an example of what we talked about pre getting onto this interview and that is “How do you know what God wants to do in a service?”  Because there are services where He doesn’t heal them.

Sid: And you may want something but that’s not what God’s after.

John: That’s right and most people where a lot of these ministers got in trouble because they were labeled as a healing….what if you went to a Benny Hinn Meeting and there was no healings take place and because he said that God wanted to just have a prayer meeting you see.

Sid: I had a meeting recently…

John: Uh huh.

Sid: Where I had come off a string of services with major types of miracles and I just flat expected it. And what God wanted it was a tremendous outpouring of God’s Spirit for repentance but I was after the physical miracles.

John: And I’ve made that mistake.

Sid: And I missed it.

John: Yeah and I have to and a lot of other preachers have missed it. Now in that when I told you about the man that was blind my first meeting was that I had a visitation of an angel and I went into a vision and I saw the scripture that I was going to preach. Now you’ve got to remember this was 30 some years ago I was a no novice I knew nothing and I saw the scripture that I was to minister on, how to minister…

Sid: How far ahead of the meeting did this happen?

John: This happened about a week before the meeting.

Sid: Okay go ahead.

John:  And I saw the people that would be in the meeting and when I got there it was exactly how He showed me.

Sid:  You don’t have to work up your faith when you see that.

John: No you don’t know you don’t! And it just gives you a confidence that you would otherwise not have and that’s the importance of following the anointing.  Now I liken in following the anointing as when the cloud lifted when Moses was in the wilderness with the Israelites and when the cloud was over the tabernacle.  When it lifted that’s when they got the signal to get up and move and when it stopped that’s when they made camp.  And we have got to be sensitive not that we’re looking for visions and all of this sort of stuff.

Sid: Listen we’re coming into times right now forget the healing ministry, we’re coming into times right now if we can’t hear God it can cost us our life.

John: Absolutely.  And I’ve had experiences like that to where I hadn’t listened to God and it almost cost me my children’s life.

Sid:  We’re out of time…