Sid: Getting ready for a visitation from Heaven, that’s what my guest says his name is Shawn Bolz. I just got a hold, supernaturally I believe, of his brand new book just off the press it’s called “Keys to Heaven’s Economy, an Angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.” And in your book you say that this is God’s moment for many people to have open Heavens explain.
Shawn: Well, I believe that God wants to put the motivation and motivator back into Christianity being with Jesus where He is that that’s our primary goal is to be with Jesus for all eternity for where He is. And I think He wants to provoke us to that by revealing what Heaven’s like now. And He wants to provoke the world to see how good He is by showing them a glimpse of Heaven. in Heaven there’s no lack, there’s no divorce there is no need for healing there is no depression. He wants to bring environments on the earth that look like Heaven and feel like Heaven as a foretaste of what we’re going to experience.
Sid: And you know many people they hear that description of Heaven and they say “Ah, I don’t want to be here.” But what you’re saying is we’re here for a purpose to bring a little Heaven on earth, is that what you’re saying?
Shawn: Absolutely.
Sid: Okay we want… there’s so many areas you deal with in your book we can just touch on some of them. One that I was especially integrated in has to do with money because to be candid with you I see so much on quote Christian television about how we can get money, or how we can get things and how easy it is and it’s sort of taken a shift away from the Biblical concepts to greed. Explain your take in your book because I love what you said.
Shawn: Well, my whole perspective is that God is releasing resource so that we can be extravagant source of blessing to His purpose and to the people on the earth. And the whole concept is that we’re going to be a people who understands that everything that we have is ours, the 10% model is a training model for people, but everything that we have is God’s, none of it is ours all that is His. And so He may require anything that I have in my possession or that I have in my life for His glory. And that there’s a generous heart in God towards us to steward with Him and that He enjoyed creating the world, He enjoyed stewarding his resources; He enjoyed stewardship of you know putting the plants where He put them and putting the water where He put it. And we’re supposed to enjoy stewarding our resources as well. Sometimes the way that it’s set up in the church is that there is a self-motivation with the money. But the only way that He can entrust us with great resources that actually brings Kingdom fruit is that there would be an unselfish motive in it.
Sid: Well, how does someone know what their motive is selfish or unselfish?
Shawn: I think part of it is how much fruit are you bearing with your resource I think that so many people are really good at giving to organizations which is a blessing and their good at helping to support people’s visions and they are good at giving their 10% and maybe a few gifts to the poor. But there is another aspect of it where money creates position, money creates authority and money creates…
Sid: A platform.
Shawn: And God is about to show people how to use their finances to create position platform ministry functions for all kinds of different spheres of influence and it’s not just give your money to the church which are two very important issues but it’s also give your money away that would create a platform for Jesus to stand upon. Maybe you’re standing there for Him as face and voice to be able to speak into the issues that are unresolved in our culture and our society. But also other cultures and societies; I believe this message translates to the poorest parts of Ethiopia, I believe that God wants to bring a resource and wants to show people and train people in Kingdom values with whatever they’re stewarding whether it’s a little of a lot. And that there would be an extravagant heart that you can’t out give Him when your serving His purpose He will always bring a source of provision that will continue. Even in the day of tribulation, so to speak, that the Christians are made for tribulations days; Christians are made for the day of adversity to succeed and thrive, if we’re serving His purpose.
Sid: Where does humility fit into this?
Shawn: I think there is a place that when you know that everything that you have is His and you understand that He is going to require some of the greatest resources you have. That He’s is going to say “Sew, sew these ones into this.” There is a place that it doesn’t matter if your rich or your poor or if you’re in need or your in plenty, that there is a place where Paul said “Where he counts it all loss anyways” and that just to know Jesus He just wants to know and fellowship with Jesus and His nature.
Sid: But it’s more difficult for someone that has a great deal of money then for someone that can’t put two nickels together.
Shawn: I agree that God has been training a number of people, and when I say number I think that it’s thousands and thousands of people in rich countries. I think that He’s been training them to understand the selfishness in the inherent societies. I think that it doesn’t…
Sid: Especially this country the United States of America.
Shawn: And I think that when you understand the selfishness and it doesn’t make you want to become poor it makes you want to actually thrive more so that you can begin to change the face of what’s going on. Like you have Bono who’s a singer in a group U-2, and he’s taken his place that he’s learned from the selfish world and he’s looking at world hunger. He’s saying “Our generation can cure world hunger if we just get the right education; it’s not just about finances it’s not starting a campaign about finances it’s starting a campaign about education understanding.” So he’s using his voice, his name and his fame to cure world hunger right now and that’s his whole goal, his whole life mission is to work with humanitarian efforts. I believe that many people are starting to see they’re being influenced by something that’s in our generation of the selfishness, the greed, all of those things. They’re saying “We want to do something, it’s not that we want to decrease in what we do we want to do what we do well, but we want to do it for the purpose to influence the difference the change, be agents of change for this.”
Sid: And we’re finding that this generation of young people it’s different than the previous generation; this is the heart of young people right now.
Shawn: Absolutely I think that there’s something inherent that’s saying we hate injustice. When you deal with injustice you deal with the poor, you deal with the sick, you deal with the brokenness in our society of marriage. You deal with the brokenness of what is a man, what is a woman and I think our society is calling out, crying out we need justice.
Sid: And not just our society that must be the heart of God right now.
Shawn: Absolutely.
Sid: How does God have so much love and patience with all the sins we have in America?
Shawn: (Laughing) I can’t answer that question.
Sid: But I’m glad that He does. Now in your chapter and we touched on it a little bit Chapter 10 called “Extravagant giving.” You were at a conference in Canada when the Minister of Finance came to visit you. Tell us some of the things he revealed to you, especially here’s a quote “The Holy Spirit is going to lead the church to give in ways that are impossible according to human nature.” What do you mean?
Shawn: Well, I think it goes back to Macedonia example that I quoted earlier in there where the Macedonians gave to Paul and he explained about their generosity they gave beyond their means of giving because they understood that God would provide for them. I think that there is going to be people who the normal human nature is not equipped to give in a sacrificial way where it actually costs and could potentially be there downfall, could potentially ruin their lives. I’m not talking about giving to big offerings that would just support one ministry; not that that’s a bad thing. I’m talking about a gift that gets so motivated by the love of God not just emotions or impulse that says “I must make the sacrifice because it’s demanding everybody because he wants to trust me with his nature and His nature is so against my nature that sometimes He requires us to choose His nature above anything else. And I believe that there’s something that’s foreign to the western world we give in a humanistic way, and He’s teaching us how to give in a Kingdom mindset that our source of God or our resources belong to Heaven first therefore our lack is His lack and our gain is His gain. It delivers us from a fear that’s resource based into a place where it’s relationship based. So people are going to give based on their relationship they have with Heaven not based on the resources that they have available to them.
Sid: And I have to, help me out here, but I have to believe that our motivation to give is to get there’s something wrong in this picture. Shouldn’t the motivation be “God I love You there’s nothing more important than to give into your kingdom!”
Shawn: Absolutely, I think that there’s a good part of the American dream I’ll use America as an example which is you can have big dreams here and succeed in a great way and that’s a beautiful part of America, but the bad part of America is that American dream has become a place of having you know resources that’s selfish in motive in having 2.5 kids and 2 cars and the big house, and maybe another house just as a vacation place. And it all centers around our own selfish motives to gain something to have security in our possessions and we obvious know from all the world disasters that have happened there’s no sure security in our own possessions. And so there’s a place where God is putting inside a generation of people the desire to change and have an identity in Heaven and in Heaven’s economy not in earth’s economy.
Sid: And that I think is an important point you just made we have to have a shift from looking at the earth’s economy to Heaven’s economy.
Shawn: Absolutely.
Sid: To looking at it from God’s perspective and not our humanistic perspective what about what were you shown about supernatural favor?
Shawn: Well I believe that’s been one of my… the last couple of years I have been spending time on it, and I know I wrote a little in the book. I believe that as we give first of all to the poor Isaiah 58 is real clear as we give to the poor His light shines upon us in an increased way. So I believe that accelerates our on calling our own destiny what we’ve been given from God to partner with Jesus I believe that as we give to the poor that it accelerates us because it’s selfless and there’s no glory in it, it only brings God glory.
Sid: And you also mentioned the second area was Israel.
Shawn: Israel as we give as the church understands the call of God on His redemptive people of Israel and the begin to sow into the Kingdom efforts of what’s God’s doing there I believe the day of the Lord accelerates. And I believe that that’s also clear through scripture that the Kingdom world starts to understand God’s promise and Covenants over Israel and begins to not just add finances but actually resources with man-hours resources with understanding and education and giving themselves as a sacrifice is the way to Israel that it accelerates the day of Jesus coming forth.
