Sid: Red hot is an understatement; I had a traditional Jewish rabbi, not just any rabbi, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. He’s host of the national TV show “Shalom in the Home” on The Learning Chanel. He was named by Talker’s Magazine as one of the hundred most important radio hosts of America. I mean he has credentials like you wouldn’t believe. He’s described by many publications as arguably the most famous traditional rabbi in America; he’s been profiled in many of the world’s leading publications including Time Magazine, Newsweek, New York Times, London Times, L.A. Times, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post; he has twice weekly columns in Jerusalem Post, the New Sun. He had a debate, if I was to pick one Jewish believer in Jesus of everyone I know throughout the world it would be Dr. Michael Brown who I’ve known for many years. You see Dr. Brown has got a PhD in near eastern languages and literature from New York University. He is president and founder of Fire School of Ministry in Concord, North Carolina which is right outside of Charlotte, North Carolina. Mike you either read, write, or speak about 15 Semitic languages. How did you happen to learn so many languages?
Michael: What happened was, this is not my fault this the fault of the rabbis, you say how’s that? Well here’s the deal, I got saved in 1971 I was not literate at that point in Hebrew or Jewish sources. I was raised in a kind of a wishy-washy Conservative home on Long Island Conservative Jewish home. I had been a heavy drug user shooting heroine, using LSD, playing drums in a rock band. God radically turned me around at the age of 16 ½ in 1971. My dad was thrilled with the change in my life, but said “Okay great you’re off drugs that’s wonderful, but you need to come back to our traditions.” So he brought me to meet the local rabbi who was fresh out of Jewish Theological Seminary, a great young man; took a real interest in me. We began to have lengthy dialogs by phone, of course I wanted to win him to the Lord the same way, and he wanted to win me back to Judaism. He began to challenge me “Mike you don’t even know Hebrew. Mike how can you tell me what to believe I’ve been studying this since I was a boy.” Then he brought me to meet some ultra-Orthodox rabbis, very religious rabbis in Brooklyn a couple of years later. I had memorized thousands of verses at that point out of the King James Bible, and I was praying hours every day and I was ready for anybody. I went to me with these rabbis and they seemed like very God fearing men, much more religious than the men in the synagogue where I grew up. Boy I mean they knew the languages and they knew the background, and it seemed like everything I threw at them they seemed to have an answer for even if some of the answers were far-fetched at least they had an answer. That really provoked me, I felt “Look I know my experience in the Lord is real, I know I’ve been transformed, I know the word seems so absolutely clear to me, but…”
Sid: Yet, I have to tell you Mike, and a Jewish person, or a Gentile person that believes in Jesus; when they first hear the apologetics or the arguments that traditional rabbis have had 2000 years to develop, it’s very overwhelming if someone has not had a personal encounter with God.
Michael: It is, look the fact is you have some very sincere people who are studying the same Bible, but they’re reading it in Hebrew, and you’re average believer is not able to read it in Hebrew. They’ve had like you said 2000 years of not believing what we believe, and have a whole system of faith and practice and many of them study for hours and hours a day. At that time I didn’t realize, but some specialize in dealing with people like me. That’s only increased, there’s a great increase in what we call counter-missionary…
Sid: But just out of curiosity how old were you when you first were taken to the rabbi?
Michael: Well the local rabbi, the Conservative rabbi I was not yet 17. I was a brand new believer…
Sid: I have to be candid with you, I don’t know how you held your own. I don’t know why he didn’t overpower you because you didn’t know Hebrew. If you were like me, you were bar-mitzvah and you read beautiful Hebrew, but you didn’t understand a word of what you read.
Michael: Listen I didn’t even know what the content of the passage was. In other words, no one ever bothered to tell me that when I was bar mitzvah’d I read from 1 Kings 18 where Elijah calls down fire from heaven [Laughing], that’s quite a passage. Nobody told me that you just went through the motions, that’s not Judaism as a whole that’s the Judaism I grew up with which was very superficial. Leonard Ravenhill, an old man of God who is with the Lord now, he used to say “A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument,” this much I knew. God had radically changed my life; Jesus in a moment of time delivered me from drugs; God brought deep conviction of sin into my own life and made me to realize how far from Him I was, and how deeply He loved me. I was transformed, He changed me; He was working in my life; He had become my Father and my Best-Friend. So if someone hit me with an argument I knew there was an answer somewhere, in point and fact I spent hours alone with God. Not immediately, but after several months in the Lord I started to get hungrier and thirstier. I remember saying to myself “I could live a clean but empty life, or I could give myself to God the way I gave myself to drugs and rock music,” which meant whole heartedly. I began to pursue the Lord with all my heart, so by the time I had met the ultra-Orthodox rabbis when I was 18, I had been spending 5, 6, 7 hours with the Lord alone every day. I was reading the Bible 2 hours a day; I was memorizing scriptures 1 hour a day; I used to memorize 20 verses every day, that’s how hungry for God I was. I was experiencing the reality of God, so when I met with these men yes they challenged me, yes they raised good questions, yes their lifestyle also challenged me, not that it was different than mine in terms of devotion, but the fact that they were very serious religious Jews, and I grew up thinking all Judaism was superficial the way I knew it. So I was challenged by all that and I thought “Okay, when I start college I’m gonna start studying Hebrew.” When I started studying Hebrew I thought “You know I need to learn more languages to learn more background so I don’t even need to rely on the dictionaries, or commentaries; I want to be able to dig and understand on my own. The interesting thing is, that along the whole journey, even though I knew the reality of my faith, I was always wondering “What am I going to study, what I going to learn, what am I going to be confronted with that is going to cause me to question what I believe, what am I going to be hit that I don’t have an answer for? To my delight, and even surprise, the more I studied the stronger my faith became. I didn’t have to shut off my mind ever. To this day Sid, after 34 years in the Lord and writing 1,300 pages of apologetic material and having many debates with rabbis; to this day I can tell you, the more I study the more excited I get about the foundations of our faith.
Sid: Okay, we did two television shows with Dr. Michael Brown, and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, that I have literally, I mean so many credentials I don’t have time to even list all of them; so we had as good a professional traditional rabbi as possible, and as good a Messianic Jewish scholar as possible debating on the subject “Who is Jesus?” Mike why is it 2000 years ago so many people missed Jesus being the Messiah? I mean here He was in the flesh performing miracles everyone in Jerusalem knew about this rabbi from Galilee that walked in signs and wonders, and people said He was the Messiah. Why did a group of Jews follow Him, and a group of Jews, a larger group, not follow Him at that time?
Michael: Well the fact is that’s the way it’s been in our history Sid. Picture this we come out of Egypt with the greatest display of national miracles, public national display in world history. God demonstrates that He alone is God; He brings us out of Egypt, He brings us through the sea; He speaks from Mt. Sinai in such a way that the whole nation can hear, and the whole nation says “Whatever He said we’re gonna do.” Within 40 days many of them, the majority are breaking the very first commandment and worshipping an idol. Out of that generation only 2 make it into the promise land, and the rest die because of unbelief and…
Sid: Yes, but most of them were not as knowledgeable as say a traditional rabbi 2000 years that from age 3 or 4 starts memorizing and studying the Jewish scriptures.
Michael: Some of those people did come to follow Yeshua, some were believers, but many times He is more than we are asking for. In other words, we want a Messiah who will come according to our plan and make the world a better place and make us all happy and take away trouble and war. On a certain level in the Messianic age we’ll experience a lot of that when it is fully realized on the earth. Jesus came and upset the religious apple cart; He is a threat to our authority systems; He is a threat to our religious tradition, and what happened was despite the tremendous sincerity of so many of these men, and rabbinic Judaism was really in its formative stages then, but despite the sincerity of so many of these men they had made the mistake of replacing the living word of God with human traditions. In their zeal to construct something in which the Jewish people could live on a national level without the presence and the prophetic word of God, they constructed an endless stream of traditions. Jesus came into conflict with those traditions, He did not come the way they were expecting Him to come, He did not come and build up their system, He came and confronted what was wrong in their system and because of that many turned against Him.
Sid: Well we’re coming into the most exciting time to be alive for a Bible believer; probably the most horrific time to be alive for a non-Bible believer. And it’s my heart’s desire that you fulfill your destiny especially since God has called us to be alive at this greatest move of God’s Spirit in history. I want to do two things with you this week; First, I want to get you meditating on one promise of God every day this week and the promise that I love, and we will start with Acts 10:38 which says “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit, with power and went about doing good, healing all who were oppressed by the devil for God was with him.” And I want you to personalize this, here’s how I would do it or how I do it actually. “God anointed me,” you follow because Jesus lives inside of you so God anointed. And the word anointed means He literally smeared the Holy Spirit on you. And can you picture God doing that say this with me “God anointed me with His Holy Spirit and with His power, I go about doing good and healing all who are oppressed by the devil; for God is with me.” Can you picture saying that 20 times every day and getting that into your spirit. And saying that God literally took His Holy Spirit smeared it all over you. He took His power and He smeared His power all over you so that you are now equipped to do good; you are now equipped to do all that God’s called you to do. You can heal all who are oppressed by the devil; why, because God is with you; so we’ll work on that every day this week.
Just as important as mediating on God’s word, is speaking in supernatural languages, speaking in tongues. Why is this so important? Well for starters when you see the devil work so hard, over time if you will to demote tongues and supernatural languages to the backroom in most congregations that no better; they know the importance of praying in tongues; you know that this is important. As a matter of fact, I want to take you back many many years ago when I was just investigating about Jesus. As a Jewish man I went to a Bible study and all of a sudden someone in the Bible study started praying in tongues, and I was so intrigued I said, “What is that, what is that language?” And the person said, “I’m speaking from my Spirit an unknown language.” And I thought “Boy I’d like to do that,” Now I know that the Bible says you’re not supposed to pray in tongues with non-Believers present but I can just tell you that was the most intriguing that I saw that someone could speak in a language that they never been taught. So after I became a believer the first thing I wanted was to be filled with the Spirit of God and be able to speak in this supernatural language that intrigued me so much. So I remember going to a Full Gospel’s Businessman’s meeting and at the end of the meeting they said “Any one that wants to be born again go in this corner, any one that wants to speak in supernatural languages and be filled and baptized with the Holy Spirit go over in this corner.” So I immediately went there, someone put their hand on me we prayed the Holy Spirit would just flood my being and I would be able to worship God in a language I never been instructed. And you know what as a new believer I didn’t ask how, I just said “Okay.” If someone told me I could have walked on water back then, I wished they had I believe I would have walked on water. This man said, “You’re filled with the Holy Spirit and you can speak in supernatural tongues.” I hadn’t been trained to say “Well, how do I do it?” I just started speaking he just said to speak and I just started speaking. I spoke in a supernatural language but almost immediately after this occurred that evening or the next morning a little voice said, “You’re making that all up.” And I got paralyzed by fear. Isn’t it interesting the Bible tells us “God hasn’t given us a spirit of fear,” so if God hasn’t given us a spirit of fear I’ll give you a guess who gave the spirit of fear. So I stopped praying in tongues for fear, and that’s the word, that I would displease God I was just making it up. And then one day an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi came to the Lord and I got to know him a little bit; I was standing with him one day and a woman came up and she was pregnant and she said “The doctors tell me my baby is dead within me.” And so Rabbi Essie looked over at me and he said “Sid pray for this woman.” And I’m a new believer how do you pray for the dead to come back to life as a new believer. Now again if they had caught me as I was brand new I probably would have had no doubts but I learned just enough about religion that I was really kind of concerned; I mean how was I going to pray for this person and I can’t even tell you why but I started praying in tongues for this individual and then she left. Then the Rabbi looked at me and said “Sid, do you know what you’re praying.” I said “Absolutely not.” He said “I do, you’re praying in an ancient form of Aramaic and this is what you said, “You said that the child is with God the Father and be at peace.” And I’ll tell you what, after that I never doubted, I was praying in the Holy Spirit, but here’s the truth if you ask your earthly father for bread he’s not going to give you a stone or a serpent, how much more will your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those that ask Him.” So I wish that I had trusted God before I did; but you know I guess you know “The Bible says the Jew requires a sign.” I needed a sign that it was authentic. Then I would pray in tongues an hour a day and I promise you you see going on the ministry of “Its Supernatural/Messianic Vision” is a result of that one hour a day. And if you don’t get anything else from the message today get this, you must, I mean it’s essential that you start praying in supernatural languages, in tongues, one hour every day because of what’s going to happen on planet earth. And when you find out what’s going on you won’t be forced to it won’t be a discipline it might start as a discipline, but it’ll be the best time of your life as you’re doing this.
A lot of people question that when they’re baptized in the Holy Spirit do all the people speak in tongues? And that’s a good question, the only answer that I have is what the Bible says. I did a study of the book of Acts and in every case where people were baptized with the Holy Spirit it said they spoke in tongues, it didn’t actually mention it when Paul was baptized but later on he spoke a great deal about speaking in tongues. There was one case where it wasn’t mentioned and so we’re working on 100% except for one case. Now it didn’t say it didn’t happen but it did not say it did happen and that is in the book of Acts the 8th chapter the 14th verse. Do you remember when Peter and John went to Samaria and they prayed for the people to receive the Holy Spirit and Simon the sorcerer it says saw or observed power when the laid hands and wanted the baptism. What did he see? What did he observe that he was willing to pay money for this? I believe what he saw them doing is praying in supernatural languages don’t you. Now, do you have to speak in tongues to be saved? This is another question that a lot of people ask and the answer is absolutely not. But when you find out what you’ve missed you’ll be very sorry that you didn’t pray in tongues. You are saved by repenting of you sins and believing in Jesus plus nothing.
Now the next question, “Have supernatural languages or tongues ceased?” 1st Corinthians Chapter 13 verses 8-12 says “Whether there are tongues they will cease.” Well, then the question is “When are tongues going to cease.” Paul says that they’re going to cease. Verse 9 “For we know in part and we prophesy in part.” Verse 10 “That which is perfect has come and then that which is in part will be done away.” A lot of people think perfect is Bible or perfect is Jesus, well that’s just because they didn’t read the next verse, verse 12. And it says what the perfect is and I believe it’s the return of Jesus; whenever that happens for now we see in a mirror dimly but then face to face. We’re going to see Jesus face to face, “Now I know in part but then I shall know just as I also am known.” In other words you’re going to know everything, so I maintain that the perfect or Jesus not returned face to face with us because we don’t know everything. It’s important that after Paul said “Tongues will cease.” You know what he started doing he started saying in 1st Corinthians 14 verse 5 “I wish you all spoke in tongues.” After tongues would cease.
Well, our time has slipped away ….
Sid: Guess what Mispochah the anointing, the presence of God is pouring through your tape-recorder, pouring through your radio right now because God’s up to something special. We’re talking on an area that is so important to God that He not only prophesied this in the Old Covenant through Joel but He Prophesied this in the New Covenant in the Book of Acts. He said “In the last days (which we’re part of right now) God is going to pour out His Spirit and we’re going to have dreams and visions. I got a hold of a book called “Dreams and Visions” by Jane Hamon; Jane is the Pastor, and her husband, of Christian International Family Church in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida. And many of you may be familiar with her father-in-law Bill Hamon who is really a father of many, many prophets and many are familiar with the CI, Christian International Organization. But this is perhaps the most simplistic yet practical book but there’s an area where we’re talking about yesterday Jane that there’s a great deal of confusion. In the New Age they have books and they say “This is what you’re dream means.” And there are things I understand that when I dream about a house it has a particular meaning but you do something I love in your book. What you say is that different symbols have different meanings to different people and there for that’s why one person can’t interpret another person’s dream just based on what these symbols mean.
Jane: Right, I don’t think that we can just dream and then go look up the symbols in a book and plug in a meaning that really cuts the ministry of the Holy Spirit out of the interpretation process I think. I think that we have to understand that symbols really are one of the most basic languages that we really can’t even read the scriptures without understanding symbols we understand symbols in our day to day life when we see certain symbols on a road side. Or in a mall we understand we have to deal with but in the scriptures we see Jesus symbolized; we see Holy Spirit symbolized; we see Satan himself symbolized in many many different ways. So I think it’s important that when we dream we aren’t just plugging something in without understanding how it got there. For example just say for example Sid that I had a dream about a dog and you had a dream about a dog. And just say for example that I really loved dogs and you really didn’t like dogs.
Sid: Well, you’re being prophetic right now, no I love dogs as long as I don’t have to take care of them, but go ahead.
Jane: (Laughing) But that symbol would actually mean two different things to two different people based on their life experience, is that right?
Sid: Of course.
Jane: Okay, now if I were to take that back to the scriptures and I was to say “Now say I had a vision of a lion, according to scripture what does a lion represent? Well, we have Jesus, the Lion of Judah but we also have Satan as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and we also have the believers the saints, the righteous who are bold as a lion. And so you see that same exact symbol being used to describe Jesus, to describe Satan, and to describe saints. So you can’t just say “Lion represents xyz” you have to listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying in that regard. However, I think that living in a western world we’ve become very accustomed to not thinking in a symbolic way. The people of the eastern cultures they think symbolically and they use symbolism in their day to day life. But as we begin to learn to read the scriptures, as we learn to look at the pictures that are seen in the scriptures, we can begin to develop an understanding of what the symbols actually mean. For example you brought up the symbol of a house.
Jane: When I dream about a house number one I look at is it my house? What’s happening inside that house. Jesus used that house to represent a man’s life. He said “It’s like the man who built his house on the rock verses the man who built his house on the sand.” Well, what is He talking about? He wasn’t talking about where what real estate we build on, He was saying “What are you building your life on?” What are you building your life on? So the house actually can represent an individual’s life or it could signify a time in your life, for example I used to dream about my grandmother’s house and these were things that God wanted to speak to me about promises, generational promises or generational curses that needed to be broken. The people that were in the house, my families, things of that nature. Look at what’s going on inside the house and I think that that’s one of the ways you can approach that symbol. The symbol of people is where many times people will actually miss it. They will have a dream about their boss, or they’ll have a dream about their pastor, or their husband and they’ll immediately assume that that person is literally that person in their dream.
Sid: I’ll tell you as a new believer I did that and I would get so afraid that something would happen to someone I loved not realizing it was not that person; that person represented something.
Jane: Exactly right, people can be symbols and I think that if people can just remember that one little lesson about symbolism it will keep people out of a lot of trouble. (Laughing) because people can actually be symbols. For example maybe your pastor is a symbol of how you respond to authority, maybe it’s how you respond to God because God has delegated that person as a spiritual authority. So God maybe using a dream that you had where your pastor is speaking to you and it’s actually God trying to get through to you on something. Or maybe you have a dream where you see some political figure doing something wrong, maybe you don’t really have a trust in authority, maybe you have trust issues when it deals with authority like that. But what I encourage people to do when it comes to the symbols of people is look at some of the…what are some of the outstanding characteristics when you think of that person that come to mind. Maybe God is using that to symbolize that as something that God wants to deal with you in your own life.
Sid: You know this is really important stuff Jane that most believers go their whole life and don’t have a clue about.
Jane: It really is and I think that if we can understand just some of the basic principles of interpreting a symbol some of the basic principles of understanding how God speaks symbolically to us. Then it open up a whole new understanding of not just of the realm of revelation that God is speaking to us by his Rhema, or revelatory, word to us but it actually opens the scriptures up to us more understanding that as we study a symbol we can study it and study it and continue to gain understanding and revelation.
Sid: Now can Satan give us a dream and if so how do we know.
Jane: Well, I think that number one I don’t think that the righteous need to be afraid of Satan giving us bad dreams. Okay I went through a season where I was tormented by dreams, but I will say this not every nightmare is from the devil okay. In Genesis chapter 20 God gave Abimelech a nightmare when he had taken Abraham’s wife Sarah into his palace. Remember Abraham’s told a half lie and then God gave Abimelech the dream and said “You’re a dead man,” this is not a good dream, this is not a good dream you could even say that it was a nightmare that stirred Abimelech and got him back on the right course.
Sid: It saved his life.
Jane: Exactly it saved his life and it saved the destiny of a nation that God was birthing through Sarah. So God may actually use a disturbing dream to get us back on course. Job chapter 33 says “I’ll speak one way and then I’ll speak another and then I’ll talk to you in a dream.” (Laughing) and you know to get through to you so that I can remove the walls of pride and save your life from falling into the pit. And ultimately that’s what God’s after, but the devil can come in and bring tormenting and fearful dreams. I went through a season where I was very tormented in dreams and God had to show me the root of that thing in my life so that I could receive deliverance from the Holy Spirit so that I could be set free. And even now there’s people that are being tormented, people that are listening to this right now that are being tormented in their sleep, and in the name of Jesus in the name of Yeshua we break the stronghold of that spirit of fear off of your life and release to you the peaceful dreams that come by the Holy Spirit.
Sid: You know as your speaking in a prophetic word, can all the gifts of the Holy Spirit operate through dreams?
Jane: I believe so, I believe that well think about it what happens when we go to sleep at night, does the Holy Spirit clear out until the morning? Does He take His gifts of the Holy Spirit that He’s given us to operate in the day time, does He take those with Him when He goes? I don’t believe so I believe the Holy Spirit abides with us throughout the night season as well. And so the same gifts that we operate in during the day can actually operate in our sleep in our dreams as the Spirit of God is moving upon us. I have a prophetic gift and I see things prophetically quite often. In dreams I have gifts of discernment where I’m discerning either angels or the works of the enemy, and I see things in my dreams on a very frequent basis out of the gift of discernment that God has given me to walk in during my waking hours.
Sid: You know you talk about in your book about some of the corruption that came into the early church which in some of these Greek philosophers. Explain that.
Jane: Yeah, the Greek philosophers you know basically they started out teaching that we could rely on human reasoning, the senses, or the spirit realm to be able to gather valid information. But then they came along later and determined that the only way that we could really determine true valid was through reason and through our five senses, and they completely cut out the realm of the spirit as being a valid receptor of valid information. And so that’s kind of where the whole process of our western civilization of really neglecting the understanding of the spiritual power that comes or information that comes through the spiritual means.
Sid: But you know we’re in a period of restoration of all things and I’m so glad that the supernatural of God is being restored…
Sid: You know my guest is Dr. Gary Whetstone, and Gary and I we’ve known each other a long time. We have friends that are prophets and we read the newspaper and we see that things are not going to be the same in the United States. We see what’s going on with the economy; we see what’s going on in every arena of life it appears to be shaking right now. Some people are storing food, others are storing guns, other are storing are money, others are buying gold and silver. I recommend people do whatever God directs them to do, but a lot of them that are doing this Gary are doing it because of fear that we’re living in the last days. What would you say to these people that are so fearful?
Gary: You know what the thing that God has spoken in Jeremiah 29:11 He says “For I know the plans that I have for you declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.” If you think about every other plan that is induced to create a false security. False securities is one of the greatest instruments of the enemy to trust in the arm of the flesh. If you think that gold is going to be a secure place, you are greatly, greatly forsaken because it says “Gold will fail.”
Sid: Well, you know what, I think a lot of people are putting these things and making them their god rather than God their God.
Gary: Absolutely and because of the false imagery and because of the evil imaginations. You think about it, God’s commanded us in II Corinthians 10 verses 3 – 5 it says “To pull down imaginations.” He says “To cast down every high thing, every stronghold and imagination that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.” Satan wants to get our faith and fear is one of the greatest tools the enemy uses to get it. He creates an attack of a bump on your body, next thing you know you’re thinking “Oh, I’ve got skin cancer,” You end up having a lay off or a cut back in your employment, and you think “Oh, my god I’m not going to have any more money. Well, the fact of the matter is God’s just setting you up for promotion, He’s given you exactly what Jesus said He does when you’re going to bring forth more fruit, He’s cutting the tree back so it’ll be pruned. He said “I’m the vine, you’re the branches.” He said “How’s this works is “The Father’s husbandry He trims the branch but what the enemy does is interpreted it as a fear and then make us look at some natural way, or some imagination of our mind that we can trust in. Trust in gold, trust in our education, trust in some favoritism of somebody that is able to get us a job rather than “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.” The greatest crippling affect that takes place in the Body of Christ is the pictures that take place in our mind. In the book I’ve written called “Make Fear Bow” deals with how to identify these evil imageries. How to see what has been set up that cause the mind to induce, perceive and conceive a way in which I am going to be limited. We know that God didn’t give us a spirit of fear, we know that we do not have the spirit of bondage again to fear.
Sid: You know Gary I met some people that I think are so gifted to speak publicly for the Lord, but they’re afraid to get behind a microphone and they’ll never going to find out they’re so gifted.
Gary: If they don’t put that fear under their feet they will never know the Almighty God within them. And I’m speaking to you right now that are listening, this day there is anointing of the Living God to break the yoke of fear, break the imageries over the mind. Break the torments, some of us live in a mindset where our families that have diseased therefore we know that we are going to die of it. How do you know that you’re going to die of it, because somebody said you’ve have signal going off in your DNA? No, you know you’re going to have long life, God is going to satisfy you and show you His salvation. You know that God is giving you the capacity the vision of God to step up and stand out and to speak out with the word of God. This is God’s time in your life to put everything that’s been assaulting, acknowledging, and obstructing the word of God in you and bring it down in the Name of Jesus we have that power. We are endowed by God not only through His nature but through the Name of Jesus to be able to cripple and to notify every principality and power of the air that I am coming forward into my future, God is favoring me to fulfill every promise He has manifested in His word and God’s nature is going to perform every word He’s spoken. There is no fail with the God that I serve. That’s the life we life, we do not live a life that is crippled and bound by the appearances of things. We can release our self from the self-dependencies. We’re not set here to repeat our past, we’re not bound to the enemy to live under the grip of financial duress and fear of somebody saying “The Middle class is being wiped out.” Who called me “Middle class, I am the head above only and not beneath. I never was part of the middle class, I am part of the highest class that God has out of the Living God a royal priesthood.
Gary: We have let the voice of politicians, the voice of economic doom and gloom, the voice of fear and terror and torment and lack and want become a constant in our life and God has ordained us to triumph in victory in the mighty Name of Jesus. (Praying in tongues) For the word of the Living God has come today to open your eyes to see, to open your ears to hear, to endow your heart with power. Impel you in action and move out to do what you’ve not done. For the word of the Lord is within you and strength and power to do the exploits set before you.
Sid: So what limitation does someone have that your speaking to right now, what limitation do they have?
Gary: I’m watching it right now, I’m watching people afraid to speak and step out in their financial factor, it’s God’s time to break the bands of it that financial grip that that employer has had. The torment of your education saying you can only earn this much, the fear of watching right now, fears in family, fear that we’re not going to see restoration in our sibling in our relationships, fear that our children are bound and going into rebellion, we can’t see them delivered. Jesus…
Sid: What about fear of divorce?
Gary: Oh, the fear that I’ve broken it so bad that I can’t see restoration, “Perfect love casts out all fear.” We are in doused by God with a supernatural ability to conquer the atmosphere around people’s lives. Sid if people know the authority they have in Christ Jesus they will rule the atmosphere; they will subdues the tormenters that are even speaking to their spouse and shut the enemy up and the spouse will not be hearing the enemy. That’s our authority.
Sid: But wait are these going to be bad times for people living in the last days where the economy is collapsing, diseases running rampant, families are being destroyed; is there really hope? I mean are these worst days for believers?
Gary: These are not the worst days, these are best. We shine in over oppression; the church comes forth and shines the brightest light in the great darkness that exists when the oppression is the most ominous is when Christ shines the brightest. My beloved brother and sister that are listening today I’m speaking to you no matter what the darkness, no matter what the terror, no matter what the torment, no matter what the fear; the Christ Almighty in Power, Wisdom and Love in you is greater. Do not ever let him whom is within you become restricted by anything outside of you. Your made more than a conquer through Him who loves you.
Sid: Your listening from a man that has tested God’s word and made fear bow in every arena of his life. I mean when you get a death sentence from a doctor there’s probably no more fearful thing than somebody can get but you’ve had two death sentences from doctors.
Gary: That’s right
Sid: Not counting all the other things you’ve gone through. And if God would have fear bow in his life, God will do it for you. As I like to say “Anything God will do for me, he’ll do more for you because there’s no limit to God. The limit is only you and a lack of knowledge. What feedback are you getting from people that are reading the book and listening to your teaching?
Gary: I’ll tell you the teaching of “Make Fear Bow” has become a standard in many Bible colleges now because there’s no other book that clearly unveils all the causes and effects of fear. We’re watching physiologists using the book and helping people face psychosis, which is what they call it, which is nothing more than fear and break the band of that oppression in their life. The word of God is never failing; I have one lady in our church that was just listening to a teaching that I was teaching on fear the other day. She had been watching us on the internet and sitting in her house for 6 years. I did not know this. God said to me my spirit “You who are sitting at home bound I command you get out of your house and get in this house of God right now.” She got out and when she got up off that bed the oppression left her, the confusion, all the physical infirmity left her and she has been in the church every service.
Sid: You know you teach about believing and meditating on the word but most people never stand, they never move and this is a missing ingredient.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to have godly children and godly grandchildren and godly great-grandchildren because were coming into such a separation between light and darkness that our children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren they’re not going to stand a chance unless you learn how to pray appropriately. Now my guest Mike Shreve has been a guest several times on Messianic Vision. Mike is a prophetic evangelist for over 42 years a teacher; he’s written many books, but this one is going to be his most fruitful book ever. Why do I say this, because I see what’s happening to this generation of young people, I see them not honoring parents, I see them walking away from the faith in droves; I see them getting involved in sorts of sin and this cannot be. I had a dream in my dream Jesus said “He’s coming back soon” and that’s why the devils operating so furiously on our children and grandchild and that’s why this book “Sixty-five Promises From God for Your Child” just off the press you’ll be able to take a promise from God’s word; you’ll be able to have a revelation of that promises and then a prayer with a place that you insert the name of your children or grandchildren. You can end up getting one book for each child and each grandchild and even great-grandchild and it won’t take you a lot of time they’re short prayers, but it will change their destiny. And then the four CD’s your faith level you will not be just begging God to do something you will know it and you will say it and you’re going to have such confidence in your heart. Now Mike when I interviewed you several years ago you told me something’s about President Obama even before he was President I believe tell me what God showed you about him.
Mike: Well, first of all God showed me that during his presidency there would be an increase of nuclear proliferation. And the ironic thing about that is that his platform has been quite the opposite or at least that’s what he has…
Sid: No he wants the US to totally get rid of our large military, have a small military to get rid of all of our armaments and nuclear weapons. I mean that’s what he stands for and you heard the opposite.
Mike: Well, I heard that during his presidency that there would be an increase of the development of nuclear weapons…
Sid: And by the way we’re saying look at North Korea, look at Iran I mean look at all of the Muslim countries that Russia is supplying this technology to. We’re definitely I mean it’s so neat when someone said, and I’m sorry that this came true, but when someone gives a word before the fact and now we’re seeing it happen before our very eyes.
Mike: And it’s going to push the nations of the world on to a final stage of an ominous cloud of destruction and hovering over our planet. But at the same time I believe God is going to raise up His final generation of believers out of the generation that we’re responsible for our children our sons and our daughters. And I claim Psalm 112 verses 1 and 2 over my children that says “Blessed is the man who fears the Lord who delights greatly in his commandments his descendants will be mighty on the earth.” Listen there’s a spiritual battle going on as well as the necessary parts coming into place for that final natural battle called Armageddon. The world is in the throes of a terrible change right now and this generation of all generations has got to have a spiritual awakening. It will come not only for the adults but through children that are awakened to their spiritual potential. And God said our seed will be mighty upon the earth; I claim that I claim that for every parent that’s listening that’s concerned about their children right now.
Sid: Well, I have to tell you that when I find a prophet that prophesies in their dreams and their words come true I want to know what they see for the future. Tell me about the dream you had in reference to the civil unrest.
Mike: Well, that was very simple God just woke me up and he spoke two words to me audibly and I heard the words “Civil unrest.” I knew that there would be great upheavals in our society and in our world. He did not just confine it to the United States of America.
Sid: You know I’ve never seen such division in every arena of life as there is in the United States right now.
Mike: And I believe it’s going to get far worse especially as the government tries to enforce oppressive rules on the people such as going too far with the limitation of guns. I don’t believe our populous would stand for that because gun control preceded every major dictator that ever took hold of a society or a nation. And then the gun control issue is always on the front burner and then following that is a horrible rising of a dictator to power.
Sid: Tell me about the dream you had involving New York City and even Japan.
Mike: Well, that was a very disturbing dream; it came about a month after that terrible disaster that happened recently in Japan where there was an earthquake, a Tsunami and the nuclear incident. And about a month later I received this dream where I saw New York City lift up above the ground and become translucent and then it rushed westward and hovered over the nation of Japan and then it came right down into the very area that was hit by that earthquake and merged with that area. And I saw New York City devastated with the same level of devastation that took place there. And I will prophecy that that will come to past thus saith the Lord, that will come to past; how far in the future I don’t know.
Sid: But you also saw some good things a spiritual awakening.
Mike: Ah yes God’s also shown me that our nation will have a spiritual awakening and I would tend to believe that some of these destructive things may in the end work together for good because they’ll trigger that spiritual awakening. Years ago when I was minded toward becoming a missionary in India the rest of my life, God gave me a dream where I saw the outline of the United States of America and I saw a little red dot in the heart of America explode into two blood red words that like liquid soaked into the whole map of America and there wasn’t one city or town that was untouched. And those two words, one superimposed on the other, were Jesus Saves. And so I know bad things are happening and our culture looks like it’s descending into a cesspool but I also believe that God’s going to have that last word on this and God is going to bring us around and there will be another third great awakening in our nation. And part of what will usher that in is prayer-fullness and intercession. And certainly a key aspect of that is interceding over our children.
Sid: The ones that are going to be affected are the ones that have had been totally bathed in prayer. I must say that you have made it so easy I have your brand new book literally just off the press, it’s titled “Sixty-five Promises From God for Your Child” and the 4 powerful CD’s and you’ve made it so easy. You’ve done the research of the promises; you then have written a teaching so that someone’s faith can explode with these promises. And on the tapes you really expound on these things, then you’ve written a prayer that the parent or grandparent or great-grandparent will read out loud and you put a space where you can write that child, or grandchild, or great-grandchild’s name. And what I picture is any parent, any grandparent, any great-great- grandparent that will get this book and start and just read. It’s not going to take a lot of time, just say take three promises a day for each member of the children. I mean right now what the Bible prophesied would happen is happening. There’s children are being estranged from their parents, they’re going their own way, they’re not following God they’re going into perversion of all kinds. And they’re not going to have a chance with what’s coming on planet earth unless you do your part and you know something, it’s so easy it would be a tragedy for you not to do this. Mike how in the world this is so simple yet so brilliant, how did you develop this?
Mike: Well, God just awakened it within me when I was searching through His word to find promises I could pray over my children I began to notice these specific ones that dealt specifically with my offspring. One I have not mentioned yet is Isaiah 43 verses 5-7 where God said “Fear not for I am with you I will bring your descendants from the east and gather you from the west I will say to the north give them up and to the south do not keep them back.” And then God said “Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth.” And what really hit me when I read that verse first God says, “I will bring your descendants out, I’ll call them forth from all points of the globe.” But then He said “Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth.” So God’s is saying “Whatever belongs to you belongs to me and if they’re your sons I consider them my sons, and if they’re your daughters I consider them my daughters.” And then verse 7 he said “Everyone who is called by my Name whom I have created for my glory.” And I confess that one over my children that they are not created for the world’s glory so that the world can use their talents and their gifts but they are created by God for His glory. And that he is speaking over their lives.
Sid: Oops we’re out of time.
Sid:Jesus is coming back sooner than most of you think and that’s why I have Bill Salus on the telephone because he has spent 11 years researching and he has literally discovered the missing piece of end-time Bible prophecy. We have his brand new book just off the press and three DVD’s teaching on this. Bill while you were studying the revelation and it was revelation it wasn’t natural. The revelation of Psalm 83 which perfectly describes the next Middle East war they discovered something that has been dubbed the Irish Dead Sea Scrolls. Explain that.
Bill: Well, yes absolutely in the summer of 2006 Sid was a very prophetic year we had a discovery of an ancient parchment in Irish bogswell, bogswell is muddy soil.What it was it was, there were several Psalms but it was very dilapidated and scarcely salvageable and they were in a museum, but one Psalm was salvageable. It was unblemished and it was open in place; it had been buried Sid we believe for about a 1000 to 1200 hundred years in this Irish bogs well. And what it was…
Sid:But wait a second a piece of scroll buried over a 1000 years in this type of environment; it shouldn’t have even been paper anymore.
Bill: Well, that’s true and this was not an archeological dig with tooth brushes this was a construction worker with bulldozers.That in itself should have destroyed anything in its tracks. But this was an amazing situation and you had headlines coming out of the Washington Post going “Israel mourns Hezbollah exalts.” And so all of a sudden I’m thinking what is that they’re finding this bog. Associated Press said “It’s an ancient book of Psalms found in an Irish bog,” and at the same time there’s newspapers coming around about Israel and this war with Hezbollah headlines because they were involved in a 34 day conflict. And right in the middle of the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah here comes this Psalm discovery and what’s amazing about that Sid is that it’s the only place in over 31,000 verses in the Bible where you can find Hezbollah and Israel involved in a war and that’s in Psalm 83…
Sid:And you’re just getting the revelation of Psalm 83 when all this explosive Irish Dead Sea Scrolls occur.
Bill: Well, that’s the other thing too is that Psalm 83 as far as finding commentaries that were written about the prophetic aspects of Psalm 83 were pretty much nonexistent they were hard to find that’s why it took me eleven years of research to really get the this book that you’re offering right now. And so what was amazing to me is that the Lord put it on my heart to write about Psalm 83 that I believe was an imminent prophesy for our time probably the next Mid East news headline and at the same time there’s a war going on and Psalm 83 shows up miraculously in Irish bogswell. It couldn’t be the worst kind of soil in the world to find it show up it may as well just showed up in the middle of the…
Sid:And it mentioned all of the key players that are it looks to me like are ready to implement this. Give me a brief synopsis of the scenario of Psalm 83; and by the way when you talking about Hezbollah when Psalm 83 talks about the inhabitance of Tyre who is that?
Bill: Well, that’s the key here Sid is understanding who these players are, who these participants are that would really more than likely be Hezbollah. What I think I’ll do is I’ll take the liberty of it’s as if Asaph who wrote the Psalm 3000 years ago was with us today in this interview. I’m going to take the liberty and the vernacular of telling you who I think he would be describing in this prophesy which is clearly not found fulfillment yet and I found out why in the book you’re offering. Who he was talking about at the very lead position and he goes through and gives us an order of who these populations are in verses 6-8 of Psalm 83. We also have to start “Well, whose he saying is first?” Because some of this of first a population listed first is sort of the star of the show like the credits of a movie at the end always list the top actor. And he’s starting with the Palestinian refugees.He’s talking about their plight, he actually calls them a tents of Edom that’s a refugee position. So he has Palestinian refugees very distinct, he’s got the Saudi Arabians in here. He’s got the Southern Jordanians he has both the southern and central and north Jordanians so Jordan’s involved. He’s got Egyptians involved, so Egypt. I’m going to keep going with who it is but we should begin to notice here Sid is that I’m talking about the Arab populations that are all predominately Muslim that share common borders with Israel. I’m talking about the Arab states and their terrorist organizations within those Arab states. You have the Hamas, you have the Hezbollah, you have the Lebanese, you have the Muslim Brotherhood. So in review Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Northern Iraq should be involved, Egypt Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas Lebanon, I mean the Hezbollah.So I believe is involved in this war and I’ve done some real serious research and on the maps when you look at the Old Testament maps and the ancient maps this is where they end up today.
Sid:Now how in the world can these Arab nations that seem to never get along seem to fight everyone else, seem to fight themselves, seem to fight one another; how could they ever do what Psalm 83 says, unify?
Bill: Well, we’ve already seen that inkling toward that since Israel became a nation in 1948. It’s amazing to me Sid that after 1878 years in thediaspora when in 70 AD the Jewish dispersion started; and then in May 14, 1948 when Israel becomes rebirthed as a nation especially after coming out of a Holocaust attempt by Hitler.The Jews coming back into the land should have been given banners and balloons. But what did they get, they got bullets and bombs and this ancient Arab hatred was alive and well and most of these populations that I just listed to you even though some of those terrorist organizations came on the scene subsequently they were involved. That attitude was there they did not want the Jews back in that land over there. Now they all got there statehood after World War I and World War II, but no we don’t want Israel to have a statehood in the midst of that Mid East land. And so we and you know what do we see right now, we see that your right the Arabs used to fight against the Arabs more than the Arabs use to fight against the Jews. And the Persians used to fight against the Arabs; and there’s all this history that goes back and forth with all of these wars, but Islam came a long in the 7th century AD and it united, it started to unite those populations with similar common holy practices and holy days and so they’re united. And a matter fact they’ve never been more united, the President of Egypt Mohammed Morsi, and his Muslim Brotherhood they want to form a United States of the Arabs. You saw recently that just before the elections when our presidential elections you saw our embassies across North Africa and the Middle East being attacked, I mean all the way from Libya Egypt to Tunisia by Iran, Yemen, Qatar twenty different countries all upset about some video or whatever you want to put it on. They were Islamically driven united countries that used to war against each other and they’re attacking the America Embassies.What does that tell you Sid coming into the next four years that we got ahead of us?
Sid:It does not look good, now let me ask you this I noticed a pattern. When there are wars in the Middle East Israel never starts it the Arabs’ start it. Israel always finishes it, Israel always wins it, and Israel always ends up with more land than before it started. It’s an amazing pattern.
Bill: Well it is and you know Sid I point out in the book, and some of the DVDs your offering, that today’s Israeli Defense Forces actually exist in fulfillment of Bible prophesy; and I pinpoint why. Because when we study end times Bible prophesy we don’t see the Israeli Defense Force as showing up in a lot of different places. We see the Lord for instance stopping a massive invasion of Russia and a coalition in Ezekiel 38. We don’t necessarily see the Israeli Defense Forces there. And I can go through a whole list of things and I do in the book. But what we do see is the Israeli Defense Forces fighting off these Arab countries in the end times and that’s the point I make and Ezekiel 37: 10 says “Israel will have an exceedingly great army.” And I point out the numerous passages where they show up in defending the nation and your right they’ve even made a commitment that’s their policy they won’t be the first one to launch a weapon of mass destruction in the Middle East but they do have a Samson option. In other words their military thinking at this point is we are not going to have a Masada complex we are going to have a Samson option and I don’t feel we know what that mean but it’s a strong response option is what it is. It’s a matter of survival for them.
Sid:Yes, but what if they’re going to be number two in response then what happens if Iran nukes them, they won’t be able to respond.
Bill: Well, I think Israel is on the precipice of having to do something about Iran’s nuclear program which I believe is possibly another prophecy I mean this is how detailed Bible prophecy can be I pointed it out in the book. Iran has a double jeopardy in the end times; a lot of people recognize Iran under the banner of Persia, ancient Persia is involved in that Ezekiel 38 war with Russia and Iran and Turkey and Libya and there’s9 populations that he speaks. But they also show up under..
Sid:Woops I tell you I’m so intrigued by what you’re saying time has just slipped away Bill.
Sid: I have got a mentoring tool for you and for the young people in your life, the author Peggy Joyce Ruth. Speaking to her at her home in Brownwood, Texas and Peggy Joyce went through a horrible experience; although she was raised a church as a born again Christian she got involved over her head in the demonic with trying to witness. Doing an honorable thing witnessing to a Buddhist neighbor but she didn’t understand the word; she wasn’t equipped with the promises of God. And so she almost went under – electric shock treatments and all sorts of drugs and one day in desperation she cried out a prayer but it was an honest prayer. She had bottomed and the prayer was “If you exist Lord get me out of this!” And God took her through a series of first the baptism in the Holy Spirit, second deliverance, and then filling herself up with the word of God. What a combination, that’s what the early church did you know. When a Jewish person came to the Lord in the First Church they would say a profession of faith and then they would be immersed it’s called mikvah under the waters, and then was the belief that when they went under the waters, when they came up in the Name of Yeshua the old man and all the demons and all the deliverance would be taken care of and stay under the water. And they’d come up praising God in tongues. Then they wouldn’t even have to be forced to learn the word of God because it was natural for Jewish people to memorize scripture back then and to mediate on the word of God. And that’s why the Church was so explosive back then, but Peggy Joyce didn’t understand this however through a series of dreams and visions she understood it and God spoke one of the verses of Psalm 91 to her. She didn’t even know that was one of the verses; the verse was “In your day of trouble call on Me and I will answer.” Peggy Joyce as a summary what has God shown you as to why Psalm 91 is so significant.
Peggy: Well, it’s so significant because I had so many fears and you know man today has so many fears. Every time he looks at the news and every protection promise that is in the Word of God and there’s protection promises all through the Word. The only place where all these protection promises are brought together in one covenant is here in Psalm 91. And every evil known to man going to fall in one of the four categories and all four categories are listed there in Psalm 91 with this promise that if we dwell in His shelter and acknowledge and look to Him as our protector then this evil will not approach us. And I was so excited when God gave me the opportunity to start studying this Psalm for months and months I studied it I’ve been teaching it for about 30 years and now the Lord has really impressed me to write this book for young children and then another one for youth.
Sid: Peggy Joyce as we discussed yesterday if you had only been taught this as a child you would not have gone through the living Hell that you went through and torment. But there are young people that were raised in the church you teach at that you taught Psalm 91 to and then they went into the military and tell me a couple testimonies.
Peggy: Well, one of the testimonies; there are several but one of the young men that grew up in our church his names Jake and he had moved off with his family when he was in his teenage years, but he happened to come back into Brownwood. Now he had heard about Psalm 91 all through the years he was in Brownwood but he happened to come back right before he left for boot camp; when to a Bible study where I just happened to be teaching Psalm 91 that particular time I don’t teach it every week but that particular day I did. And he went into Iraq as an infantry machine gunner. He was into Iraq on the first day of the war he’s been there twice; and he wrote to me when he got home and he said I had heard it and I believed it but he said, “When you taught it that night he said it went inside of me and he said it brought me through my duty in Iraq without a scratch physically or spiritually. And then he just started giving me all kinds of examples, he said, “One night they were in a six to seven hour exchange of fire.” And he said, “It got to an insane level where even when they sent the helicopters in the first helicopter that came in was shot down and he started praying he said he just got back down and started praying Psalm 91 right then again over himself and over the men that were with him; and he said he didn’t get a scratch, he said two of the marines including his company commander they both got a shot in the head by a sniper fire. But he said “Miraculously that bullet didn’t even penetrate the skull,” he said “It went in and it just circled around under the skin and came out the back and the doctor in both cases said it was just a flesh wound.” He said that “There was another time that he was walking down the street and there was a group of people with him he didn’t know them but he said someone threw a gangrened and he said the man standing directly next to him was killed instantly.” And he said, “Many around him he didn’t know them but there were wounded.” but he said, “He didn’t get one piece of shrapnel. And he said “I know,” he said “I know beyond a shadow of doubt” he said “I know that my protection spiritually, physically, emotionally he said it was because I was standing on Psalm 91.” And so this is the advantage of training them young because oh my goodness he had it in him but he just needed that one Bible study to kind of spark it. And that’s what I’m believing that these books are going to do that they are going to just spark it inside of these young people.
Sid: Well, tell me a little bit about I’m so intrigued with because I’ve got three granddaughters with this it’s called a board book and it has the most beautiful illustrations and it’s designed for children say 1 to 8 tell me a bit about the history of this.
Peggy: Yes, well I’m excited about it too, I’ve paraphrased Psalm 91 in the book so that a young child can understand and then on each page it has a full color illustration and these are so good that even without the words the illustrations would put across the message.
Sid: Now, where did you get this artist from its really dramatic for these children they’re not going to forget the promises of Psalm 91 especially when they go over it every night and you even have a prayer of salvation at the end which I love.
Peggy: Yes, well this artist God just supernaturally got his name to me he’s from Brazil and he was so anointed that we didn’t even have to have him redo even one of the pictures and that’s just unheard of. You know usually you’ll have to send it back but we told him I said, “I want them to be able to look at your illustration and I want them to get the message even if they happen not to read the words on the page. For example the page telling about angelic protection has this strong masculine angel there. Well, that’s going to speak immediately to a child of angel protection. The page showing God’s protection from destruction shows a little child in God’s hands and being held up and there’s fire and tornadoes and car wrecks and storms going on the ground below, but this little child is smiling looking up into the face of God you know. And I wondered how he was going to illustrate the protection from disease and that page is so unique because there’s a little girl standing in a light beam coming from above that light beam comes down and covers her. But outside the light beam there’s germs, big germs you know life size and it’s just great.
Sid: You know let me read this as I’m looking at that picture right now, it’s verse 6a from Psalm 91, “God does not want you to be afraid of some bad disease, doctors are nice people that God uses to help sick people get well, but God is even more powerful than the doctor; He wants you to be healthy.” And what a graphic to illustrate that; and then your other book and you may wonder why am I spending so much time on this? Have you been reading about what’s going on with young children and the sexual perverts and what’s going on in the internet and terrorism and tornadoes and hurricanes. And what a foundation to put in a young person, tell me a bit about the book that is for say 8 years old and older, it’s called “Psalm 91 for Youth.”
Peggy: This one we’ve had so much good feedback it’s the same format every chapter, every verse in Psalm 91 is a chapter in the book. And it is just full of illustrations; now it’s not the big full color illustrations it’s illustrations that would deal more with teenagers and it’s full of illustrations. It’s just full of these heartwarming stories of youth who have victoriously stood on God’s word and it’s just overflowing then like I say with those testimony ideas on how to apply this truth. Some really well done illustrations and they illustrate the stories that are in the book.
Sid: This is almost unbelievable you were telling me about a person that was raised with Psalm 91 and they went into the military and the mother got a notice, “I’m sorry your son is dead.” But the miracle that happened with that son it’s unbelievable we’ll pick up on that story on tomorrows broadcast.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here and I’m with Walid Shoebat. And he told me things that I’ve never heard before, such as, tell me the correlation between Allah and the crescent moon.
WALID: When most westerners read in Isaiah 14, where it talks about Lucifer, look at the English translation: Lucifer. I go to the Hebrew. The Hebrew says [Hebrew], “How art fallen from Heaven.” [Hebrew]. “Hillel” is the word for brightness and it’s also the Aramaic, Hebraic, Arabic word for “crescent moon”. So you read it in context. “How art that fallen from Heaven, o crescent moon, sun of the morning star.” So there’s the crescent, there’s the star, there’s the symbol of Islam itself as in the name of Lucifer. Let’s not forget in Isaiah 14 it continues to say, “When he’s captured,” this Lucifer, this Hillel Ben Zohar, he’s judged. People will look at him and say, “Is this the man that made the earth tremble?” They say this is the rebelliousness of Lucifer in Heaven. When did Lucifer become a man? The anti-Messiah, the Antichrist, no question.
SID: Okay. What about Allah? What are the various names for Allah? What is he called in the Koran?
WALID: He’s called many names.
SID: Tell me a few of the names that we’re interested in right now.
WALID: The interesting names of Allah is [Arabic] [Arabic] in the Arabic. In the English it means “the greatest of all deceivers.”
WALID: Absolutely. In fact, there are prayers in Islam of having Allah give you the gift of cunningness. So some of the names in Allah in the Koran is also [Arabic], “the most proud one”. So this is what I’m trying to say.
SID: So who’s going to be the Antichrist?
WALID: You mean his name?
SID: His name or where will he be from?
WALID: Everyone who tried to figure out his name was wrong.
SID: For sure.
WALID: I think I know which country he comes from.
SID: Which country?
WALID: He comes from the country of Turkey, no question.
SID: That begs the question, we are taught that the Antichrist is going to rule the world. You say different.
WALID: No. He can’t rule the world. Because if you look at several places in the Bible he fights against other nations. In Daniel 11, Daniel 11 gives us the best description of the Antichrist. He declares war on the what? The strongest of all fortresses. Well the strongest fortresses or the strongest military minds in the world is not the Antichrist, it’s someone else. In fact most Westerners hardly if ever study how the Antichrist falls. When you ask a typical western Christian, how does the Antichrist get destroyed? Well Jesus breathes on him and that’s it.
WALID: Well there’s more to it than that. That’s the command by the way of battle that the Messiah orders. But the destruction of the Antichrist is in Ezekiel 28. He’s number one there, the Prince of Lebanon, the prince of fire. His destruction, in Verses 8, 9, you can continue on, it says, that “God will raise nations and those nations are the most terrible of the nations militarily, and they will destroy him, and they will throw him into the pit.” In Micah 5, God raises seven shepherds and eight principal men to fight against—
SID: Who are these seven shepherds and eight principal men?
WALID: Well no one knows them yet. But they are definitely mentioned in the Bible. Let’s not forget, even the Antichrist has basically seven horns, 10, three plucked out of the root. What remains? Seven. So you have seven good leaders versus seven evil ones. Seven will stand with God. Seven will be against God. So in this essence, Micah, Chapter 5 is a mystery to people today. But it is seven nations that God will raise. They will rule the most powerful nations militarily, in the world. Let me maybe suggest, how about America, while many people think America is doomed.
SID: Is America going to survive?
WALID: I believe so. It’s such an edifying message when I hear America is doomed, America is finished. We’ve been through a depression before. We’ve been through all kinds of things before.
SID: Just briefly, because I want to know the answers to these. Is oil mentioned in the Bible?
WALID: Absolutely. How can anyone deny Isaiah, Chapter 34, in which God destroys Edom Let’s not forget.
SID: What is Edom?
WALID: Ezekiel 25.
SID: Edom is what, what country?
WALID: Arabia. Absolutely. Because Ezekiel 25 tells us, Edom is from Teman to Dedan. These are biblical cities that are in Arabia. And then in Isaiah 34, it says about this place in Arabia, it becomes, “what a burning pitch. It will burn forever and ever.” I mean, Arabia will burn literally. It will be destroyed. Even the Bible tells us what nation destroys Arabia.
SID: What nation?
SID: This is making sense now.
WALID: Yeah. In Isaiah 21, Isaiah 21, you look at the reference. “Babylon has fallen, has fallen.” That should ring a bell. That’s the same reference in Revelation 14, Revelation 18, regarding the mystery of Babylon. Who destroys it? “Arise O Elam.”
SID: What’s going to happen to Iran?
WALID: Iran will eventually be destroyed.
SID: What’s going to happen to Egypt?
WALID: Egypt, the Messiah is going to come down and fight for the believers in Egypt. There will be persecution of the believers in Egypt, Christians.
SID: They already have persecution in Egypt.
WALID: No. I am talking about major persecution. I am talking about persecution like you had with the Jewish people in Auschwitz. I’m talking about major massacres in Egypt. I’m talking about crucifixion, amputations. In fact, how many Americans are aware, one of the bills they’re trying to pass in Egypt in the parliament is what is called [Arabic]. Look it up. Look up my name and look up what I talk about it. The idea of passing laws on crucifixion and amputating of the right hand and the left foot.
SID: You know what the most important thing is? I believe that you’re going to hear revelation about End Times that you have never, ever even thought about. It’s never even been addressed. But what is important than what the order of events will be is, where are you going and whether you have intimacy with God right now. And the way you have intimacy with God is if someone was to die for your sins. Jesus already did. Believe the blood of Jesus washes away your sins, and with your mouth say, Jesus you are my Lord.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be out of debt, we want everywhere walking in supernatural gifting to acquire wealth for the precise purpose of being involved in the greatest wealth exchange in history because we’re at the end of the end. As the rabbis say in Israel, We are in the footsteps of Messiah.” We can hear the Messiah ready to return to earth; they wouldn’t say return but they just don’t know, we’re waiting for the footsteps of the Messiah; Yeshua Jesus to return to earth. But there is a counterfeit approach to money, supposedly Christian and there is an authentic approach to money which is Christian. My guest Craig Hill founder of “Family Foundations International” in Littleton, Colorado has come out with a book and a CD series dealing with money. Craig, the Bible talks a lot about money, tell me when you first started getting interested in this subject.
Craig: You know it is amazing thing Sid I just found in the New Testament there are 215 verses on faith, 218 verses on salvation, and 2,084 verses on money and finances. I first discovered that back in about 1994 or about 1995, and that’s when I really started getting interested in it personally because the Lord specifically spoke to my wife and me that we were to get out of debt. And so we took that seriously. What I find is that a lot of times people hear words from the Lord, they don’t take them seriously and you look five, ten years later nothing has actually changed. We took that seriously and began to take some steps to get out of debt and it actually happened for us by 2001. We were able to eliminate all of our debt including our house mortgage. You know what I find so many times Sid, people are paralyzed when they look at what they don’t have and what they can’t do. But when they begin to look at what they do have and what they can do and they begin to do the natural things God steps in to do supernatural things for them.
Sid: Now I personally have met people that have benefited from your seminar on “Wealth, Riches and Money,” but tell me what feedback comes from people that either attends your seminar or read your books and your CD’s.
Craig: Well, we found especially with the seminar that something changes on the inside. We found that the biggest problem have is not that they don’t know what to do; the biggest problem have is an inability to do what they know. Most people have a desire to get out of debt, most people have even gone to seminars, they have even engaged in some feeble attempt at wanting to do it but the problem is on the inside they’re not able to do it. And what we’ve have found is there are spiritual factors and emotional factors that impact people. This is what we here coming out of the seminars. Specifically is that something changed on the inside that broke the power of spiritual forces that were keeping them back from doing what it was that they knew to do.
Sid: And now many Christians have been watching in churches or on Christian television and they all seem to now have the same approach towards fundraising. Many Christians have been so turned off they’re throwing away the baby with the dirty bath water. Comment on this.
Craig: You know I think that the primary problem is that often times the means and the end are mixed. God is supposed to be the end, we should be perusing God; money is a means, it’s a tool that can be put in our hands to accomplish a kingdom purpose. But what I find coming out of a lot of television Christian television, and maybe other places, is that it’s not the money is a tool to accomplish God’s purpose, it’s actually God is a tool to get you money. And money becomes the goal, money becomes the end, God becomes the means. And what I see in the Bible God is not going to be a tool in anybody’s hands to do anything. God is the goal, He is the purpose, He is the end. I think that when we pursue Him, seek after Him, not use Him or even use principals to get money but that our purpose is to seek after God then money becomes a tool in our hands to accomplish Kingdom purpose.
Sid: You know we’re not going there, but I just want to speak a parallel thing about what you’re saying. Many people say to me because they know I’ve been investigating the supernatural in particular miracles and healing for many years and they say “What is the best method to get healed?” And the answer is the same that you’ve just said Craig, it’s not a method it’s knowing the truth and the word of God and having intimacy with God. From this intimacy God will show you uniquely what you have to do to get healed. To me if you need a formula that’s the formula, intimacy with God.
Craig: I think you’re absolutely right about that Sid and that’s certainly applies to money and finances. You know I got a revelation from Matthew chapter 6 verse 24 and 25 where you know we commonly read that and hear that, that’s the one where Jesus said, “No one can serve two masters either he’ll hate one and love the other or else he’ll be loyal to one and despise the other you cannot serve God and mammon; therefore I say to you do not worry about your life, what you will eat, what you will drink or about your body what you will put on is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?” And what I find with a lot of Christians what they are spending a lot of time doing is exactly what Yeshua said here not to do which is worrying about their life. And He goes on and gives us a picture of his concept of provision. In other words, Yeshua is saying here, “Let Me show you how provision is supposed to come.” And the thing that was a shock to me, a revelation, I had always thought the provision would come through sowing and reaping.
Sid: By the 100 fold return of course!
Craig: Yeah, you know if you’re really in trouble that the way financially that you fix that is sowing and reaping. Then when I read this Yeshua gives His model of how provision is to come and He says, “Look at the sparrows or the birds of the air,” and then He said a really interesting thing, “They neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns yet your heavenly Father feeds them, are you not of more value than they?” And the revelation that came to me Sid, I suddenly realized that when I was trying to get my financial needs met through sowing and reaping what I had actually done was I had made God’s provision a matter of my works; in other words if I sow then God will provide, if I don’t sow then God won’t provide.
Sid: Listen, under the Old Covenant we needed formulas, but under the New Covenant His children don’t need formulas they just need God.
Craig: Well, you know here’s an interesting little poem that I found that goes right along with this about sparrows about birds. It said the sparrow to the robin, “I would really like to know why these anxious human beings rush about and worry so.” Said the robin to the sparrow, “I think that it must be that they have no Heavenly Father such as cares for you and me.” You know when I read that I thought “Boy, we as believers need to at least get as much faith as the birds.” The birds actually believe in their heart that the reason they will be provided for is because their Father loves them; but I found that most people don’t believe that and because in the debts of their heart they really don’t believe the Father loves them and the Father will care for them. Then they get involved and actually fall into all kinds of traps of things that people are telling them, “If you give to this ministry, if you do this, if you do that, if you send your money here, or if you invest in this or that, then that’s how God’s going to provide for you.” And I definitely believe in giving, I definitely believe in investing, but I believe that that is not the foundation and basis of our provision.
Sid: And isn’t another problem and you actually point this out in your book we’re living in instant America, and they don’t understand the difference between a healing and a miracle or getting your money little by little. They want instant fixes, quick fixes.
Craig: Yeah, people have no understanding of process. They want everything instantaneous and people are not willing to wait, and I think really the bottom line in many of our hearts is that there is a deep rooted distrust toward God. I think people remember back to their childhood when maybe they heard their parents say things like “Oh you have to be careful save for a rainy day, you never know what’s going to come in the future.” And those are really words that nullify God’s provision that say “Well, God isn’t going to be there for you you better do something to take care of yourself.” And the truth is God does love us, He does want to be there for us and He will direct us, He will lead us. As you said earlier, that requires an intimate relationship with Him to begin to experience His supernatural power.
Sid: Craig you don’t have to be a prophet for whatever anyone reading the newspaper sees we know that the big shaking is coming financially. Is it too late…
Craig: I think that it’s never too late Sid; it’s often times we can look in the past and say “I wish I would have or I should have,” but you know God can do such incredible supernatural things. We’ve had numerous people when they calculated how long it would take them maybe seven, eight, nine years and I’ve had many people report that when they simply began to do what it was that the Holy Spirit showed them to do they found themselves completely out of debt in two, three, four years. And there’s no way that that could happen without the supernatural intervention of God.
Sid: And you know one of my concerns I know you do marital counseling and marital seminars. Young people such a serious tearing in their marriage when they get into debt.
Craig: Well, that’s absolutely true and I think that a lot of times married men feel like, my wife just doesn’t appreciate what goes into me generating this money the hard work, and many woman feel like that well you put me in a prison if I spend $3 buying a Starbucks it’s like I violated something. And conflict arises and I think…
Sid: Well my guest is red hot for the Messiah, that’s an understatement for Dr. Michael Brown. As far as I’m concerned he is the most outstanding Messianic Jewish scholar on the face of the map today. He was handpicked by God for this assignment; when he became a Jewish believer in Jesus as a young man he had such an encounter with the Lord just like I did, that no one could talk him out of his faith even his Rabbi. But his rabbi really floored him one day when he challenged him on “Young man do you speak Hebrew?” Tell me about that Mike.
Michael: Yeah the Rabbi and I became friends he was the new Rabbi of the Conservative Synagogue where I’d been Bar Mitzvahed. So I’m sixteen years old, seventeen years old I’m reading the Bible day and night. I’m praying and he’s fresh out of seminary he’s about ten or eleven years older than me and he challenges me “Look, you don’t know Hebrew, how can you talk to us how can you explain; it would be like a kid who knows 2 + 2 = 4 is going to lecture a Physics Professor, or someone like calculus
Sid: He’s finished, he’s become a Rabbi, who are you?
Michael: Right, he learned it from his father, who learned it from his father even though he was conservative and wasn’t really Orthodox, his upbringing was more Orthodox so I told him well, in the meantime I’ve got the Strong Concordance and in the back of the Strong’s Concordance there’s a Hebrew dictionary. I remember what he said to me, “Meantime, shmeen time, if you can’t read the Hebrew it doesn’t mean anything. And then he brings me to meet Ultra Orthodox Rabbis in Brooklyn. Now I’m a believer at this point about a year and a half, I’ve read the Bible the King James through cover to cover about five times, I’ve been memorizing twenty verses a day for at least six months so I’ve got about 4,000 verses memorized; I’ve got the Bible down cold.
Sid: And you know you’ve experientially come to know Jesus, you know Him.
Michael: He’s transformed me, I was shooting Heroin, I was living in rebellion, I was lost. The Lord turned my life around there is undeniable that He sought me out, that He convicted me and He got hold of me and He turned me around. Somebody asked me the other day when I got off drugs did I go through rehab? I said, “No, it was basically instant, God got hold of me and I was set free and that was basically that.” So I knew that and I had a wonderful fellowship with the Lord; I would meet with Him and I would pray, and when I would be in His presence the joy, it was undeniable, not just what He did, but who He was in my life.
Sid: So what did you do with this challenge?
Michael: Well, the Rabbis, these Ultra Orthodox Rabbis they take out their Hebrew Bible, now remember they’ve been reading this since they were little kids and their pointing letter for letter because the little Hebrew I learned when I was Bar Mitzvahed I had forgotten. So they’re pointing letter for letter like they said, “Were not lying to you, I felt like a little kindergartner; I letter by letter I thought I’ve got to learn this so. When I started college and Sid to be honest I only went to college in those days to honor my parents, to honor my father in particular because they wanted me to go and I still had my hippy mentality “Who needs college and all that.” So I said, “Of course I’ll honor you, I’ll go” I go to college and I thought I should start taking Hebrew, but they had modern Hebrew, I didn’t want to speak Hebrew I wanted to read Biblical Hebrew and they’re pretty different. So I got a Biblical Hebrew Grammar, a Rabbi recommended it and I taught myself Biblical Hebrew and I thought, “You know, I’m really interested in studying this some more so when I was in college I said, “I should learn Arab because that’s like a sister language. But the New Testament was written in Greek, I should work on that, but Latin is also an important language. But you know when you do academic studying you need to learn German and but Yiddish that’s like our family language and my Dad spoke Yiddish before he spoke English so I ended up taking six languages at the same time in college which wasn’t the smartest thing. But I went on the NYU I did my Masters and PhD in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures. Ultimately worked with about twelve thirteen different languages at different levels of proficiency.
Sid: I have to believe your knowledge of Hebrew because of all these side languages that you mastered some dozen or so that you speak, read or write put you in a class beyond most Rabbis even.
Michael: You see the Rabbis would be massively fluent in the Hebrew literature in the related Aramaic literature and the Talmud, massively fluent within the walls of their tradition. In other words if their scientific study of the text if there’s a better way to read Biblical Hebrew there’s a larger science to it. So by learning the surrounding languages and culture really enables you to do it and yeah I love to study, I love to study to this day I don’t work it Babylonian today as I used to but I still love the study.
Sid: Did you get that Babylonian?
Sid: Babylonian, ha it sounds like Babel to me.
Michael: Yeah, well these are amazing languages to study and it’s exciting and all of that, but the fact of the matter is I want it to, it was personnel integrity I knew what God had done in my life.
Sid: Okay here’s my question to you, the same the Rabbi had for you. Yes you had an experience with Jesus; a Rabbi would call it an emotional experience. Yes, you found a lot of scriptures that look like Jesus is the Messiah. But you don’t know Hebrew. Now after having studied Hebrew, studying eleven other Semitic languages, memorizing most of the Old Testament, I might add in Hebrew. Is there anything that causes you to doubt that Jesus is the only way to God, the only Messiah of Israel, the only Messiah of the world?
Michael: Nothing, nothing, zero, nothing the more I’ve studied the more I’ve loved God with all my heart and mind. The more I’ve studies Sid the surer and surer I’ve become. God is my witness, any debate that I’ve ever done, any challenge I’ve ever had from Rabbi for years and decades I never, ever, ever worry for a split second that anything is going to be raised that would cause me to question one iota of my faith. It’s not just a matter of He changed my life; it’s a matter of He is the One who is spoken of. I haven’t memorized quite that much of scripture but I’ve been in it over and over and over and over and taking all the challenges and I’ve no question. I have less question about Jesus the Yeshua being the Messiah than I even question I’m sitting here in the room with you; it is the very bedrock and foundation of my life based on truth of scripture Sid.
Sid: Okay, let’s go to the debate, this was a debate between one of the most outstanding Orthodox Jewish Rabbis’ in America, many people even consider him America’s Rabbi. Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Dr. Michael Brown a top, top Messianic Jewish scholar if not the top in the world. And we’re going to ask him what well, you’ll hear my question.
Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Dr. Michael Brown Debate excerpt:
Sid: This is one of the perhaps most important questions I’m going to ask this evening and I’ll stop with Rabbi Boteach. In the Jewish community, and I was raised in a traditional Jewish family the Rabbi is highly revered, he is our source of understanding of Judaism. What is the authority of the Rabbis’, where do the Rabbis’ get there authority to be in such a place, honored place before the Jewish Community?
Rabbi Shmuley Boteach: First of all I guess you don’t pray at my Synagogue. It’s high reverence, God willing hopefully. Well, Judaism, thank you at least someone chuckled at that. Judaism is a religion of learning. Torah means instruction, it doesn’t even really mean law, it means instruction. Torah from the word ho-rah to instruct, to guide. Because we believe that God gives us His law, the Torah to help us guide our lives and the Rabbis are looked up to because they are the people who study the Torah.
Sid: Mike, I wasn’t satisfied with his answer, where do the Rabbi’s get their authority over the Jewish Community?
Michael: Basically this would be the concept that’s really we’re seeking to convey. When you have a law based religion, and you believe that God wants you to live your life according to every detail of what He’s given in the Torah. Then the Torah teachers are the ones that are going to want to have the authority because you have to go to them, what does this text mean, how am I to live this out? And there’s a text in Deuteronomy 17 which is basically been misapplied in the rabbinic tradition. The text in Deuteronomy 17 says that “if you have some legal dispute, let’s say that it’s an issue of bloodshed or something so you go to the court, the highest court in your area, it could be the Levitical priest, the judges whoever’s there and you share the case and whatever their verdict is you have to obey you can’t violate it. They say you go left you go left, go right whatever the verdict is you have to obey what they say.” Well it’s the court system, well basically that authority from Deuteronomy 17 has now been given to the Rabbis, so if the Rabbis say go left you go left, if the Rabbi say go right you go right. If the Rabbi’s say Jesus is the Messiah, he’s the Messiah. If the Rabbis say he’s not the Messiah He’s not the Messiah. The Text has nothing to do with the Rabbis, nor was that authority ever given to man.
Sid: Well, even beyond that in the Talmudic writings they basically say the only voice of God on earth, this is the way I understand it you correct me, the only real voice of God on earth is the majority of the Rabbis.
Michael: Right basically they would say the spirit that was on the prophets is now on the Rabbis, and you’ve got to be pragmatic Sid, the Supreme Court comes to a five forward decision that’s the law.
Sid: So if a voice from heaven says go right and the majority of the rabbis say go left what happens?
Michael: The Torah is no longer in heaven; the Torah has been given to us to work out.
Sid: So there can’t be a voice from heaven?
Michael: It would get over ruled. Now here’s what I believe Sid.
Sid: Oy Vey, which loosely means Oy Vey.
Michael: What I believe though is it’s easier to say the voice would be overruled until the voice actually speaks.
Sid: Okay, so the way I look at it Mike, the Rabbis do not have authority over the Jewish people from heaven. The Rabbis do not have authority over the Jewish people, period! Correct me if I’m wrong.
Michael: Here’s how I look at it, they have been caretakers, they have been shepherds, they have been fine people that have wanted to guard Israel, the Jewish people and keep them in what they believe is the Jewish calling, to be obedient to Torah and tradition.
Sid: That’s good by the way that’s preserved our people in a sense.
Michael: Right and I appreciate that, however, when there’s a conflict between what the Rabbis say and what the scripture says, when there’s a conflict of what the Rabbis say and what the Holy Spirit is saying, when there’s a conflict between what the Rabbis are saying and what the Messiah is saying, it is incumbent that every Jew respectfully say to the Rabbis, “I respect you but I obey God and His word,” period.
Sid: Doesn’t it bother you what this wonderful friendship you’ve established with this rabbi that if he were to die in the state he is right now he would not go to heaven. Does that brother you?
Michael: Of course it bothers me deeply.
Sid: Well, I don’t get it, if there was a one percent chance that what we’re saying is true, it’s everything, it’s all of eternity. How can he and others be so blind?
Michael: Well, they look at church history; they see a great misrepresentation of Jesus.
Sid: Oh, I’ll tell you what we got to pick up here on tomorrows broadcast.