SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Jim Rutz, and have you noticed there is a change going on in Christianity? The great Christian pollster, George Barna, you are reading some of his literature; he said there is a real change going on, why don’t you tell me?

JIM: Well everybody is used to coming and sitting in a pew, or sitting in rows of chairs, and having a building with a steeple on it and so forth, pastor, programs, you know all that, and that’s so.

SID: I have to tell you there was a point when I first became a believer that if I wasn’t in a congregation at least three nights a week I would feel like, something’s wrong with me.

JIM: Yes, that’s the psychology that pertains… “It takes three to five” is the phrase that pastor’s use to get people coming three times a week and you’ve got them. Well that sort of style, good, bad, medium indifferent, is shrinking, is part of the whole, and twenty years from now you are going to see that the entire church is maybe one third of the whole, the traditional church becomes one third of the whole because the other two thirds is going to be a relational church where you and I are talking with each other and a dozen other people in a living room, and we are communicating and God is there changing lives.

SID: But you know what, while this shift is occurring, there is a problem, Jim, and the problem is, according to a Christian magazine, Charisma, and many other sources,
there is a big dropout from the traditional church, that people are feeling it is irrelevant and there is a void, they want to do something but they don’t know what to do.

JIM: Well we have seen dropouts before, this one is different, people are not backsliding, they are not leaving the church because they have lost God, they are leaving the church because they are not finding God there anymore as much as they want to, and they are wanting more, and so they are dropping out looking for something, a lot of them are looking for house churches, campus church, office church, Starbucks church, wherever it is that we are going to be meeting.

SID: And this is the premise of your book, MegaShift, which I love the sub-title, the best news since year one, what is the best news since year one?

JIM: The best news since year one is a number of different things, one of the things I have in there is that the world is rapidly becoming Christian, in fact at the rate we are going now, I mean you can’t take a straight line projection seriously, but if we just kept going, expanding the way we are now, everyone in the world would be a Christian by 2032.

SID: Is it going to happen?

JIM: I wouldn’t put a whole lot of money on that but I just wanted,

SID: But it doesn’t seem to be happening in the United States.

JIM: That’s the problem, that’s why I’m sitting here on your TV program, because it is happening in places like China, it’s happening in India, now it’s starting to happen
in Pakistan and Bangladesh, hard core Muslim countries, countries that have never been known for being Christian, and they are turning to Christ in mass. I know a lot of your listeners are starting to think this, Sid has found a crazy, let me just quote you some examples.

SID: Please.

JIM: The whole last century, 1900 to 2000, it started with about a million Christians in Africa, about two million in Africa, grew to two hundred million in the course of a
hundred years, Latin America started with about one million Christians, and it grew to one hundred and seventy million Christians, China started with probably fewer than
a million Christians, about 1950 when things opened up, and now a count is about one hundred fifteen, one hundred twenty million born again Christians in China, and so the
growth is from about four million in one century to about four hundred ninety million and that is pretty remarkable.

SID: Why is it not going on in the United States?

JIM: Well, a lot of what happens overseas is that the miraculous power of God to heal and change lives, even to resurrect people, we, I have counted 52 countries in my book where we have had resurrections in the last fifteen or twenty years.

SID: Yet you know what, that is wonderful, but that is normal, I have been investigating miracles for almost thirty years, but I have here in this book the best documentation and pictures of miracles happening worldwide and although I thought I had seen everything,
tell me about that girl that was born with two heads, four eyes, one head on top of the other, four eyes of which I think only one had an eyeball, tell me about her.

JIM: Her name is Esther; she is from the village of Sucrapath, which is in eastern Majabadedsh which is the middle of nowhere in India, out in the jungles actually, and
on September 1, 1999, she was born in the evening, and her parents were horrified of course, they just couldn’t imagine, they were going to put her in a clay pot and throw
her out in the jungle for animals to eat, but then they thought, now we have just become Christians, we probably shouldn’t do that, what will we do? Well, let’s pray. So they brought in five or six Christian friends, that’s about all they had in that village at that time, and they started praying. Thank goodness there was no Westerners there to say,
“Look, look, God does certain things but He doesn’t do other things, you are just going to have to adjust to this.”

SID: You know I think someone could have more faith to pray for someone dead to come
back to life than that particular situation.

JIM: Really, really, I was stunned by it just like you, I started begging my friends to get a camera to the team, and it took them six months to get a camera back in the jungle, but they finally did, anyway, they prayed all night over this horrible looking little thing and now if you look in the book you see this cute little girl, a picture of her, and the two heads became one, and the one real eye stayed there and the other eye got, just normal, and so by the next morning, she had two eyes, perfect eyes, the only thing you can see if you look real carefully at the picture in the book, her easy are still a lot bigger than a little
tiny child’s easy which is usually pretty small, and that’s because the ears originally matched two heads instead of one, other than that, perfect. And here is the bigger thing though, I mean I was surprised when I heard the miracle, but then a prophet in Switzerland named Eric Rabber, got hold of that and God spoke to him strongly and said, “this is not an ordinary miracle, this is a message from God because God is saying that for to long the church has been a two headed monster, men have set themselves up as the head of the church, Jesus wants to be the head, men have said no, we’ll be the church so the church has been a two headed monster and the world looks at us and said, “Hey, that’s church planting, we know that we have our armies run that way, we have our corporations, our governments, the guy at the top gives the orders and everybody else follows the orders, I see that in the church, so where is your God?” So now God is wanting to make a perfect church, a church body, with one new man, everything under the headship of Christ.

SID: Well, most churches would say it’s under the headship of Messiah, however there is the one placed in charge, what is the difference?

JIM: Well the difference is that over the course of the first couple of centuries you had a shift in the church from being the house to house church we read in the Book of Acts, to being a pure middle, top down organizational structure with a command and control center.

SID: It’s almost like multi-level, I’ll tell you what; don’t go away, this is really getting hot, be right back.

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